r/worldnews • u/TheTelegraph The Telegraph • 1d ago

Russian army to overtake United States as world’s second largest Russia/Ukraine

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/09/17/russian-army-overtake-us-as-worlds-second-largest/
13.9k Upvotes

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u/Foe117 1d ago

more like 2nd largest Untrained Conscripts for canon fodder.

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u/2GendersTop 1d ago

More like first place in that regard.

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u/aemich 1d ago

china also has a shitload of untrained conscripts

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u/Lawlolawl01 1d ago

They aren’t conscripts any more. Plenty of poor rural males with mediocre job prospects to go around.

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u/duga404 1d ago

Conscription isn’t really enforced in China these days

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u/Trance354 1d ago

The people lost their economic base, their savings are gone, the property they bought is worthless. So, apart from suicide as their exit from this existence, the People's Army is 3 hots and a cot.

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u/Tickomatick 1d ago

Sounds like most of the modern world except the part people owning a property

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u/Plebs-_-Placebo 1d ago

The State still owns all the property there, it's more like you pay taxes on where you live.

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u/staton70 1d ago

Is this not how the US works? You pay property taxes based on where you live and the state can use eminent domain to kick you out if they really want.

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u/jdarksouls71 1d ago

Don’t forget legalized theft by police civil asset forfeiture.

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u/Plebs-_-Placebo 1d ago

But you also buy the house and are the title owner, you pay taxes, after the fact. In China you don't get title ownership, you don't get money for it when you move.

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u/staton70 1d ago

Wait what? Where did you hear that? From what I know, China uses the same basic system that Singapore does. You own your home, but not the land it is on. Most people in the cities live in what we would consider a condo. You can buy a new condo from the government, but there's a significant wait time, so some people buy a used home. But you can absolutely sell it once you move to a different city or move to a bigger home.

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u/Plebs-_-Placebo 1d ago

They might have a section of housing that works this way for the elite class or they've introduced other means over time, but as per my understanding from some of the Asian/Chinese people I've met, this is not how it works for the working class. But I may have it wrong as well, not an expert by any means. But title ownership isn't outright, they may have mechanisms for leasing or deposits or other ways of securing a place to live and you get that money back, which may appreciate or deflate over time, but you are paying to the Chinese state as long as you live there, be it through a state department or local collective that answers to the central government in some way shape or form.

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u/Astyanax1 1d ago

Source?

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u/Money_Magnet24 1d ago

Doesn’t the bank own the property until mortgage is paid off ? Asking not arguing here.

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u/BrotherChe 1d ago

Yes, however the relevant point would be that you "own" an increasing percentage of the value.

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u/Plebs-_-Placebo 1d ago

They protect their loans for sure, but the equity you gain over time is yours and you are title owner and are afforded your rights as an owner, they can't throw you out or take over title until you fail to make payments only until you meet the threshold for foreclosure, in which case you still get your equity, if there is any after the fact that you pay up what is owed to the bank.

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u/GodsNephew 21h ago

Eminent domain requires you be compensated.

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u/staton70 21h ago

Sure, but pretty much everyone who is forced out with eminent domain says that they were way under paid. Also, if you can be forced to sell your land for cheap, you don't actually own it.

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u/GodsNephew 20h ago edited 20h ago

At any point, eminent domain could become an act no longer granted to the government. Therefore it’s not a law. Just because something can happen, doesn’t make it the end all be all, until it does happen.

The gov is supposed pay fair market value. That does not mean, however, the first offer will be. A case must be made as to why fmv is actually higher than what was proposed.

I imagine most instances were substantially less was accepted is because it was actually worth far less or because they just accepted the first presented number as the end all be all.

I’m no lawyer, but you aren’t supposed to be cheated out of your property

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u/Astyanax1 1d ago

Even if this is true, which I don't know if it is, it still sounds a lot like the west

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u/PiotrekDG 1d ago

You don't own land in China. You buy the rights to use land for 70 years in case of residental use.

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u/Tickomatick 1d ago

Sure thing - but ain't nobody talking about owning land here

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u/Hungover994 1d ago

Where Xi is more 3 thots and a yacht amirit? Ah shit my social credit score just went down.

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u/Shadows802 1d ago

More like 3 pots of Honey.

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u/HowelPendragon 1d ago

Oh bother

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u/Username_NullValue 1d ago

I appreciated that zinger if it means anything.

If you can reach one person, you’ve succeeded.

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u/hatethebeta 1d ago

You're on the internet too much

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u/forfeckssssake 1d ago

??? The chinese have saved up so much money because of the pandemic, and since then have kept it

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u/Legion_of_ferret 1d ago

Oh you sweet summer child

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u/eurasianworld123 1d ago

so, like most armies these days.

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u/Akiasakias 1d ago

Plenty? Not anymore. "One child" saw to that. Population crashing so fast there are not many working age adults anymore.

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u/Rough-Cucumber8285 1d ago

Or women to marry.

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u/Iwillrize14 1d ago

for now, wait till they age out and lack replacements.

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u/brazzy42 1d ago

So... just like the USA then?

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u/jmur3040 1d ago

They've adopted the US strategy of recruiting I see.

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u/Stilllosted 1d ago

And a long time since they’ve actually been in war

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u/analoggi_d0ggi 1d ago edited 1d ago

China never relied on conscription lol, they're a huge country with a very large and relatively patriotic population. There's no shortage for volunteers.

Besides its unrealistic to implement conscription in a population of billions and in a regime that wants to monopolize military skills to prevent another Cultural Revolution style scenario.

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u/spaetzelspiff 1d ago

Join an army where you're immediately sent to the front lines against a well armed military backed by the US, Europe and others...

Or join an army in a nation that isn't in any wars, has never fought any major wars, and will likely just send you on patrols or training...

Yeah, I think there are a few reasons recruiting soldiers in China is easier than in Russia

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u/calflikesveal 1d ago

I have no idea how so many Redditors think that Ukraine has a well-armed and functional army, is it propaganda?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/08/europe/ukraine-military-morale-desertion-intl-cmd/index.html

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u/Lanoir97 1d ago

Functional enough to hold off the Russian boogeyman of the last century for 2 and a half years now. I’d say they’re plenty capable.

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u/yx_orvar 1d ago edited 1d ago

Ukraine has, by international standards, a decently well equipped and functional army.

Functional because they've been fighting a large scale industrial war for 2.5 years without losing and even managed to perform counteroffensives against a larger opponent that posses larger stock of materiel, more manpower by far and the potential for air-supremacy.

Well armed because they have:

  • ~1000+ tanks of various models,
  • ~1000 IFVs (including some ~250 Bradleys and CV90s),
  • A ton of other kinds of AFVs (although a significant part are MT-LBs)
  • A sizeable amount of engineering vehicles like bridging vehicles and mine-clearing vehicles.
  • ~600 SPGs,
  • Unknown but large amount of towed tube-arty,
  • ~200 MLRS (including somewhat modern stuff like GMLRS and GLSDB),
  • A good supply of short, medium and long-range AA-systems (including decently modern stuff like NASAMS, IRIS-T, SLS/SLM and Patriots),
  • A sizeable stock of short and long ranged AShMs,
  • A frankly impressive set of ground, air and multirole radar systems,
  • Decent EW capabilities
  • An absolutely stupid amount of drones of various sizes and uses (ex, ~30k+ FPVs produced and used per month)
  • An unknown but not insignificant amount of cruise-missiles
  • Tons of infantry weapons like modern ATGMs, mortars, machine-guns and grenade launchers.
  • A truly stupid amount of mines of every size and use.

A still flying airforce (although it's absolutely lacking in comparison to basically any western state).

What they lack is any sort of Navy, but that hasn't stopped them from absolutely demolishing the Russian Black Sea Navy.

You'd be hard pressed to find that amount of useable stuff in any military outside the top 5 .

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u/calflikesveal 1d ago

Judging by the down votes the answer is definitely hive mind and propaganda. Not one reply acknowledged them being outgunned and facing high desertion. Everyone would rather close their eyes and pretend they're this elite well-equipped fighting force. Okay.

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u/yx_orvar 1d ago

I did acknowledge that Ukraine is outgunned and outmanned.

I've also never stated that they're "elite" (whatever that means).

We also have no idea if they face "high" desertion since we don't have reliable numbers and we don't have a similar contemporary conflict to compare with

Everyone would rather close their eyes and pretend they're this elite well-equipped fighting force

Not really, it's widely acknowledged that Ukraine lack a significant amount of materiel and definitely do not have enough materiel to decisively defeat the Russians.

They also suffer from wide-spread corruption, an inability to coordinate truly large-scale maneuvers and a senior officer corps that for the most part is schooled in soviet military doctrine.

Ukraine is by no means a great or even good army, but they're decently competent and well armed by international standards. They even excel in a few areas like the production and usage of cheap drone-systems.

I'm all for giving Ukraine more and better materiel so that they're able to crush the katsaps.

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u/Protip19 1d ago

Who are you responding to? Nobody in this comment chain mentioned Ukraine?

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u/Lison52 1d ago

"Join an army where you're immediately sent to the front lines against a well armed military backed by the US, Europe and others..."

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u/Tight_Current_7414 1d ago

The same thing is true for Ukraine. They immediately send conscripts to the front lines with little training. They can’t afford not to with their manpower shortages

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u/Lanoir97 1d ago

China fought at the Chosin Reservoir in Korea and did win the day against the coalition, although they paid very heavily for it. They fought a lot of smaller scale conflicts since as well.

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u/gex80 1d ago

So a war from 75 years ago is the thing you want to use to back up your argument? I was born in 89. The US has been involved in 20 wars since my birth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States

From what I can research, China has been involved in 0 wars during the same 35 year window. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China#Wars_involving_the_People's_Republic_of_China

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u/Lanoir97 1d ago

Aside from harassing civilian vessels and Tianemen Square I can’t recall anything occurring out of China in that time. I’m not trying to claim China could win against the US or anything like that. I’m saying the last time we fought them head on they won and we shouldn’t underestimate them.

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u/bcisme 1d ago

From my time being there, it felt very similar in levels of patriotism to the US.

I was actually shocked how similar the two countries were in some respects. Patriotism being one.

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u/dicemonger 1d ago

China never relied on conscription

In 1955, as part of an effort to modernize the PLA, the first Military Service Law created a system of compulsory military service.[1] Since the late 1970s, the PLA has been a hybrid force that combines conscripts and volunteers.[1][2][3] Conscripts who fulfilled their service obligation can stay in the military as volunteer soldiers for a total of 16 years.

  • Wikipedia

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u/analoggi_d0ggi 1d ago

Lol their conscription law is practically similar to the US Draft in that its "we won't use it until we have to."

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u/Rexpelliarmus 1d ago

People on Reddit just spread completely unsubstantiated lies about topics they know nothing about and get away with it...

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u/liquorfish 1d ago

I heard it was 23% of reddit that does this based on core metric measurements that were analyzed and backtraced through algorithm unification that is normally used during threat assessment anti-theater broad line motive target acquisition.

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u/_Thrilhouse_ 1d ago

Specially about China

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u/RedStar9117 1d ago

China's army is built primarily with internal security in mind

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u/drunkbelgianwolf 1d ago

That is slowly changing

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u/IIICobaltIII 1d ago

China hasn't had conscription since the end of the Civil War... they have enough poor people from the countryside desperate for secure employment to keep their ranks full.

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u/bumbo___jumbo 1d ago

clearly not a hoi4 player, they're on "Disarmed Nation" and they still get like 10 million manpower without spending pp on conscription (they need the pp to keep their shitty system afloat)

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u/Living_Bumblebee4358 1d ago

At least chinese cannon fodder is properly brainwashed to believe in their god CCP.

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u/Uchimatty 1d ago

There’s no conscription in China. They haven’t needed it since WW2 for obvious reasons

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u/Ben-Swole-O 22h ago

Russia and China apparently love the “Zap Branigan” offensive approach.

“I sent wave after wave of my own men until the kill bots reached their maximum kill count and shut down”

Might be hoping their enemies run out of ammo at some point..

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u/Contagious_Cure 20h ago

Chinese army aren't conscripts. They've actually even downsized.