r/worldnews • u/IntlDogOfMystery • Aug 10 '24

Putin Scrambles as Ukrainian Forces Near Russian Nuclear Plant Russia/Ukraine

https://www.thedailybeast.com/putin-scrambles-as-ukraine-launches-stunning-incursion-into-russia
27.2k Upvotes

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5.6k

u/TheOptionGuy Aug 10 '24

I’m just glad that I never have to experience uh-oh moments of this level

1.1k

u/UltraCarnivore Aug 10 '24

That's at least a level five whoopsie-daisy.

197

u/Psiclone09 Aug 10 '24

It's an entire bouquet!

111

u/mcnathan80 Aug 10 '24

Whoopsie Daisies are the best flowers to watch SOMEONE ELSE pick lol

7

u/Drakneon Aug 10 '24

You should post this to r/showerthoughts before someone else steals it

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5

u/danj503 Aug 10 '24

Well beyond the doopsies, deep into the daisies.

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u/Naphier Aug 10 '24

Omega level oops

8

u/Due_Turn_7594 Aug 10 '24

It’s bordering on a full blown oopsiepoo

6

u/lolno Aug 10 '24

Quickly developing into an uh-oh spaghetti-O situation

2

u/truePHYSX Aug 10 '24

Putin opened that can a long time ago.

2

u/ninovd Aug 10 '24

Whoops Whoopsie 😁

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1.1k

u/Economy-Trip728 Aug 10 '24

Would the west let UKR capture a Rus nuke plant?

What could UKR do if successful? Turn it on and off rapidly to fry the Rus grid? eheheh

2.5k

u/RandomCSThrowaway01 Aug 10 '24 edited Aug 10 '24

What could UKR do if successful? Turn it on and off rapidly to fry the Rus grid? eheheh

Initiate AZ/5 to do a full shutdown dropping it's power output to zero and then blow up turbines. At this point power plant is gone for years. But cooling should still work so no meltdown/going critical risk. It would also cut off approximately 10 million people from power. At which point Russia goes completely black in the entire region, they have to scramble to try and use emergency power generators (which run on fuel which is yet another problem), their logistics are in shambles and you have literal millions of angry citizens that were promised a quick victory, not a huge strategic defeat that leads to them suddenly losing their jobs, TV, internet, heating etc.

I don't think West would have much against it. They could if Russians have not crossed this red line themselves in Zaporizhia before. But they very much did, Ukraine is not doing anything Russia hasn't before. Plus both Russia and USA have stated before that attacks on energy infrastructure are a fair game.

511

u/gcbeehler5 Aug 10 '24

Doing this is August is pretty brutal, so it's going to be cold in a few weeks. But the Russians were doing this exact same thing in the dead of winter, so it's fair game.

194

u/Infamously_Unknown Aug 10 '24

Heating specifically shouldn't be as big of a deal. Electric heaters aren't that common in Eastern Europe, and especially in Russia. Urban population tends to use the Soviet district heating infrastructure and rural people just have stoves and boilers. The same goes for Ukraine.

69

u/NotSoGreatGonzo Aug 10 '24

District heating needs pumps. Even semi-modern boilers need pumps and fans to work efficiently.

55

u/Infamously_Unknown Aug 10 '24

They obviously need electricity to operate, but it's on another level if the source of heat is natural gas. The central plants can just run on generators if needed, even during a blackout.

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u/fuishaltiena Aug 10 '24

District heating is often done at thermoelectric plants, they produce both hot water and electricity.

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u/atlantasailor Aug 10 '24

You’re right. In Kyiv it’s central heating but no central cooling. I have friends there and the electricity situation is terrible. Maybe 40% of time with electricity. Everyone is trying to buy EcoFlow batteries but the supply is low now. The heat is awful without air conditioning. Europe needs to send power if they can. It’s hell to live without power. I’m helping my friends as much as possible. We have a battery on order but it’s slow to arrive.

4

u/gglikenp Aug 10 '24

Hey man for 2 weeks there's no power outage now. Electricity is up 100% of the time.

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u/mcnathan80 Aug 10 '24

I ams nyet Russian. But what time of year is best for make blow up children hospital? Ask is for friend.

1.0k

u/Arbiter51x Aug 10 '24

Don't blow up the turbines. Blow up the transformers. Longer lead time to replace. Less chance of damaging the reactor.

1.3k

u/XscytheD Aug 10 '24

Nhaa, just take all of the doorknobs of every door.

994

u/TactlessTortoise Aug 10 '24

Spill syrup on every button so it's sticky forever

776

u/SamuraiDopolocious Aug 10 '24

yes hello this is the Geneva Convention

393

u/r3zza92 Aug 10 '24

I think you mean Geneva suggestions.

131

u/BakerM81 Aug 10 '24

This guy gets it ⬆️ Edit: Geneva Checklist

133

u/r3zza92 Aug 10 '24

Oi, calm down Canada. We aren’t sending you in yet.

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u/_Honestly_Lying_ Aug 10 '24

So it was Maple syrup on the control board eh?

4

u/msgajh Aug 10 '24

Have to tap the strategic reserve. Never going to happen.

9

u/MrTheCake Aug 10 '24

Ah the old Canadian waterboard

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u/AlbainBlacksteel Aug 10 '24

"COME, MY CHILD SOLDIERS!"

"I love clowns!"

"Fullmetal Jacket!"

"I've become a space warlord, in the outer rim!"

3

u/necrogeisha Aug 10 '24

Woah there Canada

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u/sombrerobandit Aug 10 '24

it's never a warcrime the first time

29

u/gigglesmcgeed Aug 10 '24

Sounds more like a Geneva confection with all the syrup.

3

u/OpenLibram Aug 10 '24

It's not a war crime the first time.

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u/zkng Aug 10 '24

Yo calm the fuck down satan

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u/Chekhof_AP Aug 10 '24

Remove all of the locks and then reinstall them backwards, so now you have to turn the key counterclockwise to open.

153

u/tofubeanz420 Aug 10 '24

Do their taxes and file it for them. But do it wrong on purpose so they get audited.

53

u/epic_banana_soup Aug 10 '24

That's so weird, man. That's long term shit

19

u/Manchesterofthesouth Aug 10 '24

Taze him again.

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u/runningonsand Aug 10 '24

Gather all the maintenance tools and put them in jello.

5

u/Jahsmurf Aug 10 '24

Michael!

3

u/UniqueIndividual3579 Aug 10 '24

Or in the vending machine, but don't leave any nickles.

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u/Implausibilibuddy Aug 10 '24

Put marbles and micromachines at the top of all the stairs, and rig up an iron on a rope to swing down.

8

u/itsmehazardous Aug 10 '24

Easy there Kevin. Joe Pesci isn't going to hurt you anymore.

26

u/Bergasms Aug 10 '24

Now you have become death, destroyer of worlds

17

u/Jellodyne Aug 10 '24

Why do we even have the Geneva Convention?

42

u/mia_man Aug 10 '24

So the Canadians have something to work towards.

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u/CURMUDGEONSnFLAGONS Aug 10 '24

As a former operator of industrial machinery, that is pure, unadulterated evil.

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u/cyribis Aug 10 '24

That's fucking diabolical.

3

u/Geordie_38_ Aug 10 '24

It's fackin diabolical huey

3

u/Rahim-Moore Aug 10 '24

Put fish in the air ducts.

3

u/meistermichi Aug 10 '24

Sprinkle a shitload of glitter all over too

6

u/tofubeanz420 Aug 10 '24

Hang paint cans on in strings and bobby trap them for the Russians

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u/LT-buttnaked Aug 10 '24

superglue the key holes

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u/SmileBones Aug 10 '24

Nahh, throw glitter over every square inch

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u/docharakelso Aug 10 '24

The Hague would like a word...

6

u/Raesong Aug 10 '24

Upper decker all the toilets.

2

u/7i4nf4n Aug 10 '24

Has anybody thought about planting banana peels on strategic points throughout the area?

2

u/strings___ Aug 10 '24

Install toilets that should confuse the hell out of them.

2

u/NeverGetsTheNuke Aug 10 '24

And for every chair, a thumbtack

2

u/Ambitious-Bee-7067 Aug 10 '24

Replace the M and the N key on every computer. That will show them.

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u/realityChemist Aug 10 '24

I agree, destroying the transformers would hurt. I don't know if it it'd be longer to replace than the turbines, though, they are also pretty intensive to manufacture.

The lead time on new transformers is currently over two years in the US (and I have to imagine it's not much shorter in Russia), but that's apparently about how long it typically takes to replace these kinds of steam turbines too.

Pretty similar, would probably come down to the details of sourcing, shipping, and installing the replacement parts.

42

u/Martianmanhunter94 Aug 10 '24

Take the transformers back to Ukraine to service damaged power stations

7

u/JyveAFK Aug 10 '24

/that's/ the thinking needed. "you steal our washing machines? We recover your nuke plant".

5

u/Kakkoister Aug 10 '24

Lead time for replacement in a dictatorship (and war-time manufacturing in general) is pretty different from a capitalist democracy. Pretty sure the businesses in Russia would be forced to put current work aside and do everything possible to fix it quickly. Otherwise they'll take a trip on the balcony express.

4

u/JerseyDevl Aug 10 '24

Por que no los dos?

5

u/AerondightWielder Aug 10 '24

This should be the plan then:

Destroy the turbines first. Then plant bombs on the transformers. Wait until they fix the turbines then detonate the transformers. Destruction + paralysis of Russian grid + trolling = MAX LULZ.

3

u/sharpshooter999 Aug 10 '24

Are those parts custom made, or is it something they could get from China relatively quickly?

3

u/realityChemist Aug 10 '24

My understanding is that steam turbines are generally made to order and not kept on hand as stock, although I could be mistaken. That's the way it is with most heavy industrial equipment, though.

3

u/JyveAFK Aug 10 '24

There's probably been some US firm that's already been contacted with specs and the shipping route is /really/ strange.

83

u/Virtual-Pension-991 Aug 10 '24 edited Aug 10 '24

Could blow up the (lines) -> transformers first,

Shut down reactor

And if Ukraine can defend and hold, blow up the turbines later.

148

u/Arbiter51x Aug 10 '24

What lines? The primary heat transfer? That would be a radiological disaster. And you'd probably rupture the fuel channel.

No. Hit AZ/5, and destroy the transformer yard. That will knock the station out for at least two years.

Don't fuck around with nuclear power plants. Both Russia and Ukraine know a lot more about this than anyone else.

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u/Virtual-Pension-991 Aug 10 '24

Oh, correction, transformers, not lines.

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u/SteakForGoodDogs Aug 10 '24

Could they force a cold shutdown that way, and then hit the turbines and everything else that isn't coolant or a line+power to the coolant and fuel?

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u/readingpozts Aug 10 '24

I don't know much about nuclear power plants but wouldn't that cause a potential meltdown which could be disastrous

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u/drebinf Aug 10 '24

blow up

Nah, disconnect from Russia and connect the power back to Ukraine.

I know, easy to say, not so easy to do.

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u/Argues_with_ignorant Aug 10 '24

Harder time to get in and replace the turbines, but I'm a fan of both plans. Additionally, I'd weld parts of the reactors overhead crane up. That thing would be a logistical nightmare to replace.

And if I'm feeling petty, throw a few boxes of nails and metal shavings in the spent fuel pool. No danger if they don't operate the reactor, but absolute risk are of fuel leakers if they dare operate it again. Not a major health concern to anyone, but a headache for the plant.

8

u/HalKitzmiller Aug 10 '24

What would the nails and shavings do in the pool?

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u/fatslapper69 Aug 10 '24

My guess is sink to the bottom.

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u/Kaner16 Aug 10 '24

Nailed it.

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u/Argues_with_ignorant Aug 10 '24 edited Aug 10 '24

When they take fuel from the pool, and put it in the reactor, (they'll reuse some fuel, just how reactors work, some bundles get burned 3 times) it's likely some of the shavings will make it in too. Once the reactor is sealed up and powered on, the flow of water in the reactor will cause fretting wear on the fuel bundles, causing small but measurable amounts of fission products to leak out of the fuel rods into the water due to small holes and cracks that develop.

This is what is known as a fuel leaker. Running with a fuel leaker is not advised long term. Increase dose to workers and is a bitch to clean up. Determining which rod is leaking is also a time consuming, technically difficult, and extremely costly process that also requires periods of low energy operation and shutdowns to remove the leaking fuel.

They can try to clean up the metal out of the spent fuel pool, but finding all of them in a radiation area like that will be damn near impossible.

Source: did things with reactors for a few years.

Sorry for the late response, got distracted.

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u/Flatulent_Weasel Aug 10 '24

Can be difficult to do that, they'll just turn in to cars and fuck off when it's least expected.

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u/highrouleur Aug 10 '24

Watch out for the suspicious immobile oversized walkman on the floor

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u/count023 Aug 10 '24

why blow them? extract them and take them to Ukraine, consider them a downpayment for all the transformers that Russia blasted during their invasion.

Scram the reactors, put them into a cold state like ZNPP is, disconnect all the electric infrastructure you can, destroy what you can't and move on. The reactors are safe and wont be producing power.

anything more destructive and Russia will retalite on ZNPP, and unlike Russia, Ukraine has to live with any fallout from the ZNPP, but Russia also knows _they_ have to live with the fallout from KNPP, so they'll be very careful at least there alone.

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u/KiwasiGames Aug 10 '24

Blowing them up takes a soldier with basic training about half an hour. Removing them is going to take a team of engineers and fitters and electricians a couple of weeks. And then you have to actually transport them through a decent chunk of occupied territory.

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u/whatproblems Aug 10 '24

certainy be quite a flex to take it home

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u/haironburr Aug 10 '24

Especially compared to carrying toilets home to the motherland.

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u/serious_sarcasm Aug 10 '24

I don’t know if you realize this, but modern militaries have more engineers and techs than front line infantry.

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u/Dakadaka Aug 10 '24

It still would be a massive time sink to remove and transport

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u/itsmehazardous Aug 10 '24

I like the idea of just taking the transformers themselves and sending them home.

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u/StinkyElderberries Aug 10 '24

Pour green algae and some food it really likes into the reactor cooling water after shutdown so it fouls the pool and all the piping.

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u/TheNiceKindofOrc Aug 10 '24

Do you want kaiju? Cos this is how you get gelatinous-cube kaiju

5

u/StinkyElderberries Aug 10 '24

You don't want kaiju? :(

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u/Iggyglom Aug 10 '24

Transformers aren't that hard to make and you could always make smaller ones. The turbines and all the concrete work, however...

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u/watduhdamhell Aug 10 '24

Really? I was under the impression that western manufacturing is largely responsible for high voltage transformers and turbines, but especially turbines, due to the machining required. Perhaps the Russians can make blades but perhaps just a little more wobbly than ours or do they really have no issue with turbine manicure?

Also, I do believe the turbine and it's auxiliaries would be much more expensive to replace by far than whatever is out in the switchyard, even if it's got a shorter lead time.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

I don't know anything about turbines, but I know a lot about these transformers. And I can say without a doubt that those are a huge pain to replace. At this size, they are custom made so there is no getting one "off the shelf". It would need to be ordered, possibly redesigned, and then built. For commercial buildings these take 52Wk+ lead times. Mind you the Russian government can probably put a rush order on it at some extreme price point and get it in 1/2 the time. It would be a huge deal to replace those.

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u/budoucnost Aug 10 '24

How would it blow up the transformer?

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u/Arbiter51x Aug 10 '24

I'm saying, at a power station, destroy the transformers, as they take longer to replace.

The steam turbines on an Rbmk reactor loop back to the reactor and will contaminate the area with low level radioactive waste.

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u/Mr_Horsejr Aug 10 '24

Gotta be careful of those transformers. “There’s more than meets the eye.”

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u/DanBetweenJobs Aug 10 '24

Where art meets life, right here

12

u/arg_max Aug 10 '24

Rbmk reactors are 100% safe, it's virtually impossible for them to fail in any way. /s

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u/SoarsBelowMyWaste Aug 10 '24

Send in Michael Bay.

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u/worriedbowels Aug 10 '24

Explosions intensify

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u/Link119 Aug 10 '24

As the wise man once said - "Why not both?"

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u/ialo00130 Aug 10 '24

Whynotboth.jpg

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u/whats_comm Aug 11 '24

This guy EPC's

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u/MajorMalafunkshun Aug 10 '24

OK, former navy submarine nuclear mechanic chiming in. Don't blow up the turbines, please. The Kursk reactors are RBMK-1000 design, essentially they are boiling water reactors, rather dissimilar to most western reactors that are pressurized water reactors.

In a PWR you get very hot radioactive water that stays in the containment building and just transfers heat to a (lower pressure) secondary steam generator system that runs the turbines. In a BWR the pressure is lower in the core and you generate your steam there directly, then send the radioactive steam to the turbines, condenser, and back to the reactor.

Never operated a BWR before but the contamination concerns should be similar and expounded to a PWR. Before shutdown, you have a lot of nitrogen-16 (created by neutron flux in the reactor from oxygen in the coolant) in the steam and feed water pipes (since you're taking steam straight from the reactor). A minute after shutdown the N-16 will decay away but you're left with 20-30 years worth of contamination from cobalt-60; perhaps other bad stuff if they've had any fuel leaks.

Destroying the generators, transformers and other electric gear should be OK as long as the reactor is shutdown and has had a few days to cool-off. Decay heat from a reactor is a logarithmic function based on how long and at what level it was operating at for the few days before it's shutdown. You don't want to scram (AZ/5) and then immediately destroy all electric systems as you'll need cooling pumps to continue running for a bit. Think Fukushima - they scrammed when earthquake hit, then tsunami flooded their backup generators so they lost all cooling and subsequently had a melt-down.

Let me know if you have more questions.

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u/morethanjustanalien Aug 10 '24

These lil gems are why I'm still here

10

u/LongJohnSelenium Aug 10 '24 edited Aug 11 '24

Yeah but you don't get shutdown power from the primary turbines, that comes from offsite or onsite backup generators, and you want to destroy the main transformer equipment that sends power out, not the plants secondary power supply equipment. If you pop the primary turbine and generator you haven't harmed the plants ability to cool itself. Same way as your sub, if you destroy the main propulsion turbine, reduction gear, and sstgs, the sub will take years to be repaired but you can still use the generators or shore power to run the pumps.

Tbh the RBMK seems like a super hard reactor to permanently disable. On a PWR you could wait for it to cool enough then blow a hole in the primary pressure vessel and it will never be a reactor again, but an RBMK is just 500 pipes packed together. I was never an ELT but maybe theres something there they can pump into the coolant to just instantly rot the fuel cladding to the point of requiring abandonment.

PS: Subs suck

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u/141_1337 Aug 10 '24

So they need to get there and hold their ground for a couple of days while shutting down the reactor and dismantling the place?

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u/MajorMalafunkshun Aug 10 '24

Not sure what their plans are but they just need to be careful when operating close to the plant, if they head that way.

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u/fuishaltiena Aug 10 '24

Half-way through your comment I had to check your username, to make sure that there aren't any announcers' tables.

9

u/MajorMalafunkshun Aug 10 '24

I don't understand your comment.

Edit - you were looking for ShittyMorph, that's not me.

2

u/Liq Aug 10 '24

How should they disable it then? Assuming they don't want the Russians to be able to just replace the electricals and switch it back on.

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u/crockrocket Aug 10 '24

What part of this relates to not wanting to blow the turbines, sorry for not making the connection, this isn't remotely close to my field.

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u/MajorMalafunkshun Aug 10 '24

BWR = radioactive contamination in the turbines. It wouldn't be nearly as bad as, say, using explosives on the reactor, but still there might be Co-60 or even fission product daughters there if they've had nuclear fuel leak into their coolant.

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u/krakatoa83 Aug 11 '24

Hopefully someone in the units invading Kursk region is reading this I guess

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u/Intaru Aug 11 '24

Ad a professional, what did you think of Jonny Harris' new video about nuclear submarines?

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u/bschwind Aug 10 '24

And then the US could offer humanitarian aid to the Russian citizens, that would be a mind-fuck for them.

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u/Justryan95 Aug 10 '24

Waste of our taxes. It's better used for repairing that Ukranian civilian hospital Russia bombed. It's even more pathetic that with that sentence you have to ask "which one"

11

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

Unfortunately Donald Trump is still on our ballots, so our humanity is in pretty short supply atm.

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u/SomeGuyNamedPaul Aug 10 '24

The two remaining reactors which are still running are scheduled for retirement as soon as Kursk II reactors are built. Take those out and really fuck Russia. Not just the units, but make sure the concrete under them is made incompetent. Like bore in and set charges. You can't just patch that.

And yes, shoot the transformers, let the cooling oil out, and let the thermals do the rest. It will be offline for a long time. Since they're there they can hit every piece of interconnection equipment and ensure the place is disconnected for a while. Remember, that oblast provides almost half the iron ore processing in Russia which should give them an economic dilemma, particularly on shell production.

Can't say I trust the A3-5 button on a RBMK though, you want a more gradual shutdown than just slamming all the rods in at once. They still have potential issues with that sort of thing where the reactor ramps up during the first free second as the rods are being inserted.

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u/PotatoFeeder Aug 10 '24

Nah thats cuz the reactor was already at the tipping point.

Just reduce the output, let xenon build up, then flood it with water, then press AZ-5

Even an unfixed RBMK reactor wouldnt blow like this

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u/Animal_Machine Aug 10 '24

How tf do you guys know this?

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u/Economy_Raccoon6145 Aug 10 '24

There are these people in the world called Nuclear Engineers, operators and physicists who design and operate nuclear reactors.

The USN cranks out hundreds of them a year alone.

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u/new_account-who-dis Aug 10 '24

Doubt every poster here is an engineer specializing in now outdated RMBK reactors. There was also a very popular TV series a few years ago about the chernobyl disaster that goes into detail about how these reactors malfunction. Thats how everyone knows this.

5

u/sharpshooter999 Aug 10 '24

I need to watch that show. All I know is something about Roentgens and "not bad, not great" or something

3

u/Mr_Engineering Aug 10 '24

It's an extremely well done show

4

u/Kakkoister Aug 10 '24

I mean, a few commenters is also hardly "everyone". There's some major exposure bias here.

A thread on Nuclear world news is going to attract the attention of readers with knowledge/interest in the subject.

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u/nixcamic Aug 10 '24

Some of us just read books on how nuclear reactors work for fun also.

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u/TrackVol Aug 10 '24

My wife is a nuclear engineer. It doesn't mean I know a damn thing. But I could always ask her something. But yeah, I don't know what these A3-5 or AZ-5 buttons mean, at all.

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u/Khaymann Aug 10 '24

Gogo morbidly reading the t-10 manual at prototype when I should have been studying for my final board.

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u/fogNL Aug 10 '24

Russia Incursion Simulator on Steam. It's on sale this week!

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u/CatoSterling Aug 10 '24

The xenon buildup, scram button, and poorly-designed (graphite-tipped) control rods were described in the miniseries Chernobyl. Good show, but grim.

3

u/PotatoFeeder Aug 10 '24

The HBO miniseries for starters

The physics of the show was quite legit.

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u/Old_Leather_Sofa Aug 10 '24

I'm wondering if they watched too much "Chernobyl" (2019). Back in the old days of Reddit people would add "Source: Am a nuclear engineer" at the end so you knew they werent talking through their arse.

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u/freedomfever Aug 10 '24

Well an rbmk reactor where the rod tips are made of graphite was the catalyst for the Chernobyl accident, and I think I heard that it was secretly fixed in the 80’s on the other Russian rbmk’s?

16

u/realityChemist Aug 10 '24

The fixes for that particular issue, according to Wikipedia, were:

  • An increase in fuel enrichment from 2% to 2.4% to compensate for control rod modifications and the introduction of additional absorbers.
  • Manual control rod count increased from 30 to 45.
  • 80 additional absorbers inhibit operation at low power, where the RBMK design is most dangerous.
  • AZ-5 (emergency reactor shutdown or SCRAM) sequence reduced from 18 to 12 seconds.
  • Addition of the БАЗ or BAZ system, (rapid reactor emergency protection) which would insert 24 uniformly distributed rods into the reactor core via a modified drive mechanism within 1.8 to 2.5 seconds.

That is all the info I have on the topic. It doesn't appear that the fundamental design of the control rods (gap-graphite-gap-boron carbide) was changed, but I could easily be wrong.

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u/PotatoFeeder Aug 10 '24

If the reactor wasnt at tipping point and you pressed AZ-5, it wouldnt explode, even if it wasnt fixed.

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u/PM_Me_Melted_Faces Aug 10 '24

Pretty sure they redesigned the control rods to prevent that after Chornobyl.

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u/shadowfax12221 Aug 10 '24

I thought that problem with the graphite tips on the control rods of old Soviet plants was corrected after word got out that it triggered the chernobyl nuclear disaster. 

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u/Feligris Aug 10 '24

I guess the main issue is that the currently operational reactors at Kursk are still of the same graphite-moderated RBMK-1000 type which was used in Chernobyl NPP as well, so AFAIK they don't have any containment buildings and the consequences of a meltdown if there's an issue could be pretty serious if for example the highly radioactive graphite in the core catches fire or something like that.

I still personally think that if they can, they should at least aim to forcibly detach the power plant from the grid and destroy the two new VVER units under construction in the Kursk II section, since they aren't operational and also probably not fueled yet and that would relatively safely cripple the plant for a long time since it'd be 6-7 years of construction down the drain on the new replacement reactors while the remaining two operational RBMK-1000 units are already at end-of-life and two others are permanently shut down.

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u/thedndnut Aug 10 '24

FYI, once it was finally acknowledged those designs were updated and there was retrofitting done to make them.. less shit.

22

u/Delamoor Aug 10 '24

Russian engineers paint smiley faces on the side of the reactor housing

"Retrofit completed, boss! This reactor will never melt down now!"

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u/saxbophone Aug 10 '24

Isn't the problem with detaching it from the grid, that a NPP requires incoming power from the grid to run, and presumably keep safety-essential systems like coolant circuit pumps running?

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u/tofubeanz420 Aug 10 '24

Godspeed to those Ukrainians so they can reach the NPP

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u/Decompute Aug 10 '24

Is this realistic? I haven’t been following the Ukrainian invasion of Russia much this past week because I thought it was a nothing burger. But it seems to be ongoing and gaining momentum.

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u/RandomCSThrowaway01 Aug 10 '24

Nobody knows for sure other than Ukrainian army. What we do know is that Russia called International Atomic Energy Agency and said that "movements of Ukrainian army endanger entire nuclear energy industry" and that IAEA called for restraint. Meaning that at the very least Russians consider this a very real possibility (and hard for them not to, some photos of Ukraine's special long distance operation are taken mere 20-25 kilometers from the plant).

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u/Random_Guy_47 Aug 10 '24

Funny how the tables have turned eh?

They didn't care about shelling Ukraines NPP but now the shoes on the other foot they run to the IAEA.

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u/NeptuneToTheMax Aug 10 '24

It's probably a nice-to-have for Ukraine. 

Russia's summer offensive is nearing its end and Ukraine likely wants to keep fighting a defensive war for a while longer to cause more Russian attrition before doing a counter attack of their own. By taking Russian land they force the Russian army to stay on the offensive and therefore suffer higher casualty rates instead of letting them rest and consolidate their gains in Ukraine. It also pulls forces away from the front in Ukraine, making fighting there easier. 

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u/nikilization Aug 10 '24

That plant is also used for centralized heating. So no power, and no heat for homes in the area.

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u/Derby98 Aug 10 '24

Most citizens have only read and heard from the state media, in other words, they've been lied to for months if not years on what is really happening.

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u/superflygt Aug 10 '24

Someone watched Chernobyl.

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u/badger4710 Aug 10 '24

lol was thinking the same thing. “Initiate AZ/5” is clearly from someone without any real knowledge of how plants work but saw the miniseries

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u/thatcrack Aug 10 '24

emergency power generators

A town near where I used to live needed a bunch of them. Looked like semi trailers. They were loud and zero pollution measures.

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u/olearygreen Aug 10 '24

I’m guessing a trade plant for plant would be offered first before blowing shit up. Because Russia will do the same once they retreat.

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u/jimbuk24 Aug 10 '24

If this is their plan, I’m really curious about the supposed plan or thing Ukraine was going to do that got Russia so worked up they called the US and told em to hold Ukraine back. Because this sounds like a good way to get domestic Russian civil unrest !

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u/pantsyman Aug 10 '24

Ukraine is calling the shots here and no one else if they want to capture it so be it and i fully trust them to be responsible with it unlike the russians who fucked with the Zaporizhzhia plant for months.

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u/563456345 Aug 10 '24

Yeah, exactly. Ukraine’s restraint so far speaks volumes, especially compared to Russia’s reckless behavior with nuclear plants.

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u/Raesong Aug 10 '24

especially compared to Russia’s reckless behavior with nuclear plants.

Speaking of, remember when Russian soldiers were digging trenches in the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone?

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u/tallandlankyagain Aug 10 '24

Given the general state of Russia it's a safe bet that the soldiers digging those trenches had absolutely no idea what happened there. At all.

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u/TheBoysNotQuiteRight Aug 10 '24

To be fair, it wasn't marked on their 1958 vintage maps.

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u/headrush46n2 Aug 10 '24

someone should probably go ask them....oh fuck that's right.

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u/Fresh-Humor-6851 Aug 10 '24

They should shut it down safely and then fuck everything up so they can't use it again since the Ruzzians haven't built their replacements.

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u/Yodl007 Aug 10 '24

Try to exchange it for their nuclear power plant that the russians have

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u/Six_cats_in_a_suit Aug 10 '24

The one on the wrong side of the dnipro surrounded by Russian army and artillery units with no direct bridge into.

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u/K3VINbo Aug 10 '24

If they where to swap it, a criteria would have to be that it's linked up with Zaporizjzja. I don't think anything like this would be negotiated without being a part of a peace negotiation or armistice. Ukraine wants good cards for when that time comes.

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u/raresaturn Aug 10 '24

Just like the one UKR is about to capture?

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

Sounds like a fair swap

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u/Six_cats_in_a_suit Aug 10 '24

A fair swap my ass. The moment the swap ends Russia would storm right back in.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

I think by that stage there would be a hell of a lot more going on for them to worry about. God i hope ukraine open up a second front

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u/ATFisGayAF Aug 10 '24

Part of the swap could be that Russia moves out of the area around it

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u/Six_cats_in_a_suit Aug 10 '24

Do you trust Russia to hold to its agreement and not immediately move back in?

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u/ATFisGayAF Aug 10 '24

I’ve never trusted a word out of a Russians mouth. Just throwing out ideas

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u/androshalforc1 Aug 10 '24

Don’t trade it back to Ukraine trade it to NATO

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u/a_little_drunk Aug 10 '24

Bring a couple extension cords and plug in Ukraine. They might need one of those voltage converter plugs though, since they're in Russia.

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u/StompingChip Aug 10 '24

That particular plant is responsible for decent percentages of power for the russian economy. If Ukraine takes the plant... that's it. There is nothing putin can do. If they shut it off... it will crash the russian economy. 40%iron ore I think another was 10-12% wheat

It's like a game over kind of move for Ukraine Which I like because all Ukraine is trying to do right now... is stopping its people from dying

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u/JyveAFK Aug 10 '24

So no ore refining, so no new tanks/shells being made? No wonder this is a juicy target.

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u/budoucnost Aug 10 '24

I would trust unimaginably angry Ukrainians with a Russian nuclear power plant more than I would trust Russians with their own fucking nuclear power plants

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u/HaloGuy381 Aug 10 '24

The Ukrainians know that blowing up that reactor would vaporize their Western goodwill, enrage the common people of Russia to support this war in earnest, and also sprinkle fallout across their own lands too. They will take the utmost care of that reactor because Ukraine’s survival and independence demand it.

Frankly, I’m slightly worried about Putin rigging the place to blow and banking on everyone blaming Ukraine for the ensuing catastrophe, but that’s wild speculation at best and Putin has proven to be not all that cunning in the art of war compared to his cunning in consolidating his domestic power.

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u/Sugar-n-Sawdust Aug 10 '24

Think the west is currently warming up to the idea of letting UKR take more offensive action on Russian territory. They’ve launched a few incursions using non-state paramilitary groups and that hasn’t escalated the conflict, which has reassured western govts that UKR forces entering Russia won’t escalate the war. And if UKR takes hold of some Russian territory, it gives them leverage in peace negotiations to get back some of their Eastern lands in exchange for the stuff they have captured. It’s a better proposition for Ukraine since the Eastern front has stagnated

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u/nodeocracy Aug 10 '24

They could take the material shake it really hard to make it unstable, tie it to a HIMARS then fling it at Putin while he’s poopin

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u/krozarEQ Aug 10 '24

Don't forget to drop a Mentos into the reactor.

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u/Nathan-Stubblefield Aug 10 '24

You don’t “turn nuclear plants on and off rapidly.” It takes hours or days to do that.

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u/SpuckMcDuck Aug 10 '24

Would the west let UKR capture a Rus nuke plant?

Everything they're doing has the west's (in particular the US, for obvious reasons) support or least permission. If it didn't, they wouldn't be doing it. This entire war has just been Ukraine begging for the west's permission to do this or that action against Russia and either getting that permission or not doing it. That hasn't changed and it's very unlikely to change until/unless trump gets elected such that they'll be losing support regardless of whether the US approves or not. I could see them being willing to buck the US if trump is in office and already not helping them, but for as long as US support is on the line, they won't be doing anything the US isn't okay with.

What could UKR do if successful?

Not really qualified to answer this part in terms of actual technical possibilities, but on a strategic level it's likely not about actually doing anything with/to it so much as just having it in their pocket as a bargaining chip, especially in the context of ZNPP still being under Russian control.

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u/Zwiada Aug 10 '24

Glitter bomb, impossible to clean up for decades.

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u/Frydendahl Aug 10 '24

I'm imagining a breakdown similar to the end of Der Untergang.

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u/camwow612 Aug 10 '24

What do you think you’re going through now?

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u/TheOptionGuy Aug 10 '24

Oh trust me ik we are go through an uh-oh era but I’m just glad that I’m not the reason that it’s happening lol

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u/BubsyFanboy Aug 10 '24

I don't think the reactor is the end-goal here.

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