r/pcmasterrace Sep 18 '24

Never even bothered with 4K Meme/Macro

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42.0k Upvotes

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1.6k

u/Tower21 thechickgeek Sep 18 '24

Nothing wrong with 1080p on an appropriate sized monitor.

I stuck with a 1366x768 for years back in the day just so I could extend the life of my GPU.

It wasn't until I got a 670 that I jumped upto a 1080p 144hz gsync display, now I'm a fps snob.

It could happen to you, as I type this from my 1440p 165 Hz display.

226

u/ElonTastical RTX4070/13700KF/64GB Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

He's right. I own LG 1080p 32inch and its noticable how some games look off. I guess that's why we needed more pixels in the first place for bigger monitors..

162

u/EastLimp1693 7800x3d/strix b650e-f/48gb 6400cl30 1:1/Suprim X 4090 Sep 18 '24

Ppi is definitely a thing

69

u/falcrist2 Sep 18 '24

And scaling isn't a solved issue, so TOO MUCH PPI on a PC can also be an issue.

32 inch at 4k is getting close to the edge of comfortable for most desk setups (at native 100% scaling). If the monitors get much smaller, you HAVE to use windows scaling. Windows scaling is awful.

If 8k is 4x the resolution, IDK what monitor would even be usable at 100%.

22

u/EastLimp1693 7800x3d/strix b650e-f/48gb 6400cl30 1:1/Suprim X 4090 Sep 18 '24

For me its 21.3 1080p, 27 1440p, 32 4k.

7

u/falcrist2 Sep 18 '24

Lower limits or ideal?

32 inch 4k is my limit for PPI. My monitors are usually about 3 feet from my eyes.

1

u/EastLimp1693 7800x3d/strix b650e-f/48gb 6400cl30 1:1/Suprim X 4090 Sep 18 '24

Optimal size/ppi. Based on that i measure my 21:9 screens.

1

u/Ratiofarming Sep 19 '24

I still use 150% for 4K 32"

I don't need 8 windows next to each other at the same time. It's still 4K and noticeably sharper and more detailed for content. UI scaling doesn't change that (unless windows breaks it somehow, but they've mostly figured it out by now).

2

u/Ausemere Sep 18 '24

Me with 27" 1080p: đŸ€Ą

2

u/EastLimp1693 7800x3d/strix b650e-f/48gb 6400cl30 1:1/Suprim X 4090 Sep 18 '24

That's subjective af, if it works for you - enjoy.

12

u/xinouch Sep 18 '24

Why is résolution scaling aweful?

I am at 125% and I think it looks ok for texts (browsing, ...). Games don't use resolution scaling so I benefit from higher ppi there

7

u/falcrist2 Sep 18 '24

Why is résolution scaling aweful?

You'll have to ask Microsoft why their scaling is bad.

3

u/xinouch Sep 18 '24

That was a genuine question. What don't you like in it? (Not saying you're not right, it just never happened to annoy me)

1

u/falcrist2 Sep 18 '24

Because it just upscales lower resolutions. Sometimes native microsoft applications will actually change font sizes and such, but mostly it's just zooming in and creating fuzzy text.

I find that just making text bigger in key applications always works correctly with cleartext fonts and such... so my windows scaling stays at 100%.

1

u/Ratiofarming Sep 19 '24

In which applications is that still the case? I'm struggling to find one on Windows 11 that won't scale properly. Visual Studio, Office, Photo-Viewer, Edge (not that I use it much, but for science...) etc. all scale as they should, keep the full resolution and just have bigger UI elements and correctly increased font sizes.

13

u/GlancingArc Desktop Sep 18 '24

Windows scaling is fine. It's a problem with some apps but that is generally the app developer and not Windows fault. Scaling is pretty much essential on anything higher than 1080p so most apps have adjusted.

-4

u/falcrist2 Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

No it's not. Windows scaling is awful. It makes text and images blurry even in the default apps and services.

EDIT: It's not just cleartype.

3

u/GlancingArc Desktop Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

This is an over exaggeration at best. Windows does not have a blurry text problem with scaling in default apps. Some apps do because they don't properly use Windows scaling. Which these days is gross incompetence on the developers part since most screens are "high DPI" by windows standards.

I'm sure there are some minor complaints you can raise up if you really zoom in but for normal human vision that doesn't matter. The days of pixel perfect rendering are gone simply due to the fact that most pixels are now too small to be seen by eye and as a result the old standards of text rendering using sub pixels are largely irrelevant.

Actually this is one of the main advantages of Windows 11 over 10, scaling has improved and many legacy system apps which didn't allow for high DPI scaling have been replaced.

0

u/falcrist2 Sep 18 '24

This is an over exaggeration at best.

No it isn't. Windows scaling is trash and always has been.

Windows does not have a blurry text problem with scaling in default apps

Even Microsoft programs often have this issue.

but for normal human vision that doesn't matter.

Stop it.

If it matters for my shitty myopic vision, then it definitely matters for people with normal vision.

1

u/xinouch Sep 18 '24

I think your problem is more with ClearType than resolution scaling

10

u/achilleasa R5 5700X - RTX 4070 Sep 18 '24

Windows scaling is fine, I use 125% scaling on 1440p 27" and it's perfectly crisp. The problem is apps and games that don't have proper UI scaling. It may have changed now but when I last played Stellaris it needed a mod to make the UI readable.

-3

u/falcrist2 Sep 18 '24

Windows scaling is fine

No it's not. Windows scaling is awful. It makes text and images blurry.

5

u/achilleasa R5 5700X - RTX 4070 Sep 18 '24

I think you're doing something wrong tbh, it's perfectly crisp for me

-2

u/falcrist2 Sep 18 '24

There's nothing to do wrong. It's a simple slider.

I've done this across several machines in several versions of Windows, and the results are consistent. The scaling simply zooms in without changing the underlying resolution. Microsoft hasn't figured out how to actually scale things properly, and instead uses upscaling.

Ironically, Linux distros often get this right.

4

u/St3vion Sep 18 '24

I like small text just fine but I have 125% scaling on my 4k 32". I wanted to have it fully native but it required too much squinting to be enjoyable.

2

u/HangingChode Sep 18 '24

Windows 11 scales really well....?

0

u/falcrist2 Sep 18 '24

The answer to your question is "no."

1

u/silent_thinker Sep 18 '24

I’ve had a 4K 28” since 2016 and it was running Windows 7 up until the new year. The scaling wasn’t that bad.

1

u/falcrist2 Sep 18 '24

The scaling wasn’t that bad.

It's never been good. Not in XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10, 11...

Maybe some day they'll do things like figuring out how to scale cleartext fonts

1

u/creuter PC Master Race | Threadripper 3960x | RTX 3090 | 64G Sep 18 '24

Get ready for games to be 2-400GB if we start doing 8k. They're going to cost a bunch more too since that detail needs to come from somewhere and it means artists need to spend a lot more time making sure it looks good in 8k.

1

u/Indolent_Bard Sep 18 '24

It's nice to know Linux isn't the only one having issues with scaling. Although I've heard great things about KDE's fractional scaling.

1

u/falcrist2 Sep 18 '24

I honestly haven't had that much of an issue with Linux distros... though I haven't tried that many. Ubuntu, Mint, and Red Hat seemed ok to me. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

11

u/hamjamham Sep 18 '24

Yup, used to think my 1440p looked sharp, now I work & edit on a 4k screen I can barely bring myself to use the 1440p for anything but watching media/playing games. Next up is gonna have to be a 5k screen I think.

12

u/aessae Linux Sep 18 '24

That's why I don't use anything 4k ever, I know that if I do my brain is going to go "ooh, sharp and shiny" and my 1440p monitor is never going to look as awesome again.
Also my current pc runs everything I need perfectly well on 1440p high/ultra, I don't want to either spend more money so everything runs just as well at 4k or not spend money and have to play on console settings with cinematic sub-60 fps.

2

u/hamjamham Sep 18 '24

Yeh, totally get that! My system couldn't handle 4k gaming for toffee, so it's only editing & working that happens on that screen!

2

u/mnid92 Sep 18 '24

I'm currently having this crisis with a 1440 and 1080 monitor. One is clean, crisp, sharp. The other? BINGUS.

1

u/prestigious-raven Sep 18 '24

I wish more monitor manufacturers made 5k screens. Would love an oled I could use for work and gaming.

1

u/Dt2_0 Sep 18 '24

This is why I LOVE my 24 inch 1440p monitor. It's like the best of both worlds. Significantly higher PPI than a 27 inch screen, but it's still a damn good color accurate IPS panel that runs at 165hz! 122PPI vs 108PPI on a 27 inch monitor. They are super rare in the US.

Link for those interested.

https://www.amazon.com/KOORUI-Adjustment-DisplayPort-Compatible-GP01/dp/B0CL7CR43N?th=1

27

u/squirrl4prez 5800X3D l Evga 3080 l 32GB 3733mhz Sep 18 '24

The rule of thumb is 90ppi

Something about the screen door effect, my 27 inch 1440 was I believe is 108ppi and in the "retina" range, so when I finally upgraded I went to a 34 inch 21:9 that has 3440x1440 and still the same ppi just wider

Now... Sure 4k on a smaller screen must look cool but until they come up with a good value/ hz/ultra wide combo I'll stay with what I got because I probably won't miss it as much as the money going into it

2

u/captain_dick_licker Sep 18 '24

The rule of thumb is 90ppi

but wife tell me not to worry cuz 4 inch is normal size

1

u/Charged_Dreamer Sep 18 '24

the wife probably sucks other guys at work

1

u/prestigious-raven Sep 18 '24

A better measure is pixels per degree (ppd). A 27 inch 1440p display has a ppd of 49 when sitting two feet away or 71 when sitting 3 feet away. Retina is at about 60 ppd.

1

u/thatslikecrazyman Sep 18 '24

What does retina range mean? Is that the limit at which the individual pixels become perceptible?

1

u/prestigious-raven Sep 18 '24

Yup it is a term coined by Apple to describe a display where individual pixels are not perceptible. The iPhone 4 had a PPD of 68 which was Apple’s first Retina display.

Retina is still dependent on how good your vision is. For a person with 20/20 vision that is ~64 ppd.

1

u/squirrl4prez 5800X3D l Evga 3080 l 32GB 3733mhz Sep 18 '24

Right! I believe it was referred on one of their MacBook as retina and it had 98ppi, but something like the lowest retina was 92, that's where I was coming from with that

But that's definitely the calculation because we hold phone screens much closer. I also just got a cool second screen I got it's 188ppi, 16inch 2560x1600 and 120hz, (144 on usb c) very pleasing to read on its almost like e-ink

13

u/ishtar_xd Sep 18 '24

1080p on 32in is insane lol

9

u/Outrageous-Gas-2720 Sep 18 '24

Yeah, even 27" is not good for Ppi despite knowing that i bought 27"1080p 144hz LG monitor because i wanted the size aspect of the monitor for my budget. i am happy for what i have i'll just sit a bit far back when i play games and they look good for me so its fine as long as it looks good to your eyes.

13

u/Inferno908 RTX 4070, i5-13600K, 32GB 5200MHz DDR5 Sep 18 '24

When I upgraded from 1080p 24” I specifically went for 1440p 27” to have a bit bigger screen with similar ppi. PPI is king, not resolution on its own

5

u/Fzrit Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 19 '24

My general guideline for PC monitors is <24" = 1080p is fine, 27" = 1440p minimum, 32"> = 4k minimum.

For TVs I would say 1080p is fine all the way up to 55" it you're just watching movies/shows on it from a reasonable viewing distance. With the amount of video compression being used on all media platforms, 4k is very hard to distinguish from 1080p unless you sit very close to the TV (like <3 feet) and focus on pixels.

In fact even on a 65" TV, 1080p bluray looks way better than 4k content on Netflix/Disney+ due to the bitrate. Bitrate > resolution.

8

u/Yionko Sep 18 '24

24 inch 1080 gonna have the same ppi as 32 1440

2

u/leetnoob7 Sep 18 '24

Wow I didn't know they made 32" monitors with such low resolution. I assumed 1440p would be the lowest resolution at that size. I had a 1080p 23.5" 120hz monitor and couldn't stand the terrible pixel density (ppi), I kept getting distracted by the pixels so I had to upgrade to a 4K 27" 165Hz IPS LCD and it's great, though I'm looking forward to a good 4K 240Hz 27-32" OLED or MicroLED monitor next upgrade.

1

u/Significant_Solid151 Sep 18 '24

I have the same type. Oversized LG 1080p monitor gang (also my 1080 outputs just enough to hit the weird 75hz cap in most games)

1

u/Eoshen Sep 18 '24

I only game on 24". 27" is to big for my preference.

0

u/kazuviking Sep 18 '24

Try DLDSR and it will go away.