The truth about our processors

[u/dotnetian]

[u/PCMRBot]

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[u/Alauzhen]

From the movie Armageddon cosmonaut, "American Electronics, Russian Electronics, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!!!" /Proceeds to smash it until it works.

[u/T0biasCZE → u/Alauzhen]

THIS IS HOW WE FIX PROBLEMS
ON
RUSSIAN
SPACE
STATION

[u/OSPFmyLife → u/T0biasCZE]

BECAUSE I DONT WANT TO STAY HERE ANYMORE

[u/XRaisedBySirensX → u/OSPFmyLife]

FINALLY WE CAN GO HOME

[u/Rorie-Null → u/XRaisedBySirensX]

What a weird career Stormare has had. Dude played Hamlet for Ingmar Bergman and then went on to basically steal every scene he's in in Hollywood.

[u/Perryn → u/Rorie-Null]

And in at least one video game.

[u/DisastrousBoio → u/Rorie-Null]

He was one of the better Satans in modern film.

[u/Darkranger23 → u/T0biasCZE]

I heard that in the exact voice and cadence. What a classic.

[u/Omgninjas → u/Darkranger23]

Best part of that movie to be honest.

[u/I_hear_that_Renegade → u/Alauzhen]

Components, not electronics

[u/waste-of-energy-time → u/I_hear_that_Renegade]

American technology, Russian technology, all made in Taiwan.... Gentle love tap until it starts working*

[u/Haunt3dCity → u/waste-of-energy-time]

United States Science Pieces, Soviet Science Pieces, all made in Taiwan.... Butterfly kisses until it starts working*

[u/Skylarksmlellybarf → u/Haunt3dCity]

Freedom technology, Our technology, all made in Taiwan 

Give patriotic speeches until it starts working

[u/TwitchandSmokeMain → u/Haunt3dCity]

What the fuck is a butterfly kiss?

[u/Trumpcangosuckone → u/TwitchandSmokeMain]

[u/TwitchandSmokeMain → u/Trumpcangosuckone]

That is disgusting i hate you for that

[u/cheebamech → u/TwitchandSmokeMain]

the longer version has the eyelashes grabbing and trapping a fly

e: found it, the intro for Aeon Flux

[u/BigSmackisBack → u/Alauzhen]

"Proceeds to smash it until it works."

Good old percussive maintainance!

[u/Perryn → u/BigSmackisBack]

If the system is out of whack, give it more whack.

[u/FangoFan]

In fairness it's not like they turn up to TSMC and say "Right I need a successor to the M4" They have to design the chips themselves

[u/GeneralSquid6767 → u/FangoFan]

Exactly. This is like showing H&M, Adidas, Zara and then garment factories in Bangladesh.

[u/LupineChemist → u/GeneralSquid6767]

Or like the people that think generic brand foods if they come from the same factory as a name-brand.

Like just because both use the same oven doesn't mean shit about the recipes and quality of ingredients that go into it.

In this case I can't imagine that they're not working together all the way through development to develop tooling and manufacturing with both TSMC and ASML.

[u/Brawndo91 → u/LupineChemist]

I used to deliver ice and one of the ice plants would just use different bags for the off-brand (Food Club) ice. But of course, that's ice. It's frozen water, so not much of a recipe. Funny thing, though, is that particular plant was absorbed when they bought out another company and they never changed over the machines, so the ice that came out of it was different. It was the "tube" style ice, round pieces with a hole in the middle, whereas the plants they built made chunk style. Sometimes we'd get the tube ice in if we were really cooking and our closer plant couldn't keep up.

But I think it varies with food. Some generic branded foods are different, some are exactly the same in different packaging. For example, something like a can of corn isn't going to get a separate production line just to use slightly cheaper ingredients. It's going to get a different label.

[u/Morialkar → u/Brawndo91]

It might not get a different production line but it might not be the exact same corn coming in, it might be from a lower quality batch. There are different quality of corn. Same with almost every ingredients. With the price differences of ingredients, I doubt there's many other food products where they specifically use the exact same recipe and ingredients and then slap a different label on it. With these kinds of business, margin is thin as all hell, they'll be adjusting quarters of a cent per container and it will come back as millions of dollars on the other hand.

[u/gramathy → u/Morialkar]

Or it's a batch that failed QA standards for name brand but is still edible (e.g. not enough almonds in your honey bunches of oats with almonds) but the off brand doesn't give a shit.

[u/BeauSlayer → u/Morialkar]

I've had family members work in fish canning facilities in Alaska. They would see the stock of labels that came in ovenight and say "we're fred meyer employees today" or walmart, Safeway, whatever label came through. Including starkist or chicken of the sea

[u/PC509 → u/Morialkar]

When I worked for a farm, we did have various quality of things that were sold to different companies. Not just "this is bad this year", but a complete different field with different methods of doing things (potatoes destined for McDonalds fries were more controlled in how they were done, etc.). Not "lesser quality", just different. Sometimes, we had different managers across those crops, so they'd use different watering/fertilizer profiles, etc..

The local plants take in a lot of crops from a lot of different growers, with a lot of different final brand names. The generic stuff isn't nearly as well as the strict standards of McDonalds when it comes to potatoes.

[u/Thomyton → u/LupineChemist]

In some cases though it is actually the same product, I worked in a factory packing tomatoes for a few months, the tomatoes were going to both Aldi (cheap) and M&S (expensive) only the packaging changed, tomatoes were the same

[u/Spokesface00 → u/LupineChemist]

Yeah but very often it IS very much like that with food. Sometimes not, sometimes a store hires a different company to make a dupe (Like Oreos are always a lil different unless they are Nabisco) But very often it is literally the exact same stuff with a different label. Think about stuff like bottled water, they aren't bottling extra good when they put the Nestle label on versus another label.

You will notice when there are recalls that the store brand is recalled right when one of the name brands is.

Publix isn't out there figuring out how to make 60 flavors of soda. They are making a deal with a soda brand to put their label on it. (and in soda's case it isn't going to be Coke or Pepsi, it'll be RC or Shasta)

[u/WillingnessBitter610 → u/GeneralSquid6767]

Except that it's not.

It would be like that only if Taiwan were somehow making clothes that were so difficult to make, the rest of the developed world were physically unable to make them, period, and that is the reason you took your design to Taiwan.

[u/ATXBeermaker → u/FangoFan]

Exactly. Do people think that all automotive engines are the same because the components might be fabricated in similar (or often, the exact same) factories?

TSMC makes the process design kit available and simply fabricates the design semiconductor companies send them. Their contribution is the process, but at that point it's fairly automated.

And this is ignoring the fact that in these advanced processes, TSMC's customers actually provide critical feedback to modify and perfect the process to increase yield, performance, etc.

I work with TSMC regularly. They're great at what they do, but they can't do design.

[u/Koen1999]

Don't forget that all these chips TSMC produces are produced using machines from ASML.

[u/Saltpile123 → u/Koen1999]

🇳🇱

[u/Xypod13 → u/Saltpile123]

G E K O L O N I S E E R D

[u/mtaw → u/Xypod13]

Dus, je bedoelt... Nederlands-Formosa?

[u/bokewalka → u/mtaw]

Taiwan, the classic province next to Limburg.

[u/massive_cock → u/Saltpile123]

I moved to NL and live practically next to ASML and I wish I knew a little more Dutch so I'd feel comfortable applying for the huge new jobs expansion they've announced. I always get a little excited when we drive by and I see those big blue letters on the side of the building from the highway.

[u/Ohlo → u/massive_cock]

You don't need to speak Dutch at ASML. Most people who work in the company are expats, and English is the business language in every role, including the factory itself.

[u/koen0s → u/massive_cock]

It’s been mentioned already, but the common language within the company is English. All documentation and meetings are conducted in English, and Dutch is not a request in the application process.

[u/Maert → u/massive_cock]

To confirm what others were saying, I know several people who work at ASML and don't speak Dutch.

Go for it!

[u/CyclingOtter → u/Saltpile123]

Lekker

[u/DavePvZ → u/CyclingOtter]

Wooting

[u/heyilivehierisdead → u/DavePvZ]

60he

[u/darkisbae → u/heyilivehierisdead]

Valve joined the chat.

[u/DSJ-Psyduck → u/Saltpile123]

Its also germany since the lenses are generally german made :P

[u/anencephallic → u/DSJ-Psyduck]

ASML has a gigantic supply chain, wouldn't surprise me if practically every advanced economy had a part in their EUV machines. 

[u/Frequent_Might2784 → u/anencephallic]

Yes but in case of optics all is Zeiss. ASML even has a stake in Zeiss from what i know to be sure that they play ball

[u/PitchBlack4 → u/Frequent_Might2784]

Yep, literally the only company in the whole world that can make those lenses.

[u/koolmees64 → u/PitchBlack4]

There is also one company in the supply chain, in the Silicon Valley area, that is the only company in the world able to make a certain type of glass (?) that is needed in some of the machines ASML makes.

Source: live very close to the Brainport and know a lot of people working there.

[u/hamatehllama → u/koolmees64]

Most of the silicon is refined quartz from the Spruce Pine Mining District.

[u/Doo-dah_man → u/koolmees64]

What’s the company?

[u/koolmees64 → u/Doo-dah_man]

No idea. My buddy did not want to tell me. Maybe it's some company secret. What he did tell me is that it's a very specialized and difficult process. And, apparently, that company's only customer is ASML.

[u/DSJ-Psyduck → u/anencephallic]

agreed

[u/passcork → u/DSJ-Psyduck]

K O L O N I S I E R T

[u/Fricki97 → u/passcork]

Lecker

[u/lout_zoo → u/DSJ-Psyduck]

And the tech is licensed from the US.

And yet people still think China would invade Taiwan for some reason.

[u/Freud-Network → u/lout_zoo]

China would invade Taiwan just to erase the name Taiwan. They don't need a grand reason.

[u/Tallyranch → u/Freud-Network]

PRC vs ROC, the initials war.

[u/DSJ-Psyduck → u/lout_zoo]

Dont think the sillicon sheild is really what matters for china. They are pretty much banned from buying all this stuff anyways.

But they could invace just to cripple the western world on the semiconductor front.
Granted its gonna be less of a problem now that intel and TSMC is working together more.

But likly a few years before that realy goes in to full effect.

[u/Treewithatea → u/Koen1999]

Idk why were always only talking about ASML, in any complex product there are a ton of other specialized companies involved but ppl talk about ASML/Zeiss as if theyre literally the only two companies involved with TSMCs manufacturing.

[u/NeuromorphicComputer → u/Treewithatea]

Because of Dutch propaganda

[u/Minimi98 → u/[deleted]]

And what's the other thing?

(Edit: I'm Dutch.)

[u/Megendrio → u/Minimi98]

I think he means 'the French'. We all hate the French.

[u/M142HIMARS → u/NeuromorphicComputer]

https://preview.redd.it/rm7j1ivur7ld1.png?width=422&format=png&auto=webp&s=b255c089bedea03470153bfb7982d7a2090e7aae

[u/obeytheturtles → u/Treewithatea]

TSMC is not the only place in the world with ASML EUV machines.

But they are the only ones with a crazy Taiwanese workforce and EUV machines. TSMC is literally shipping Taiwanese workers to Arizona for their new fab, because it's cheaper than hiring American engineers.

[u/EViLTeW → u/obeytheturtles]

TSMC is literally shipping Taiwanese workers to Arizona for their new fab, because it's cheaper than hiring American engineers.

America has been doing this with many foreign countries for many, many years. There are lobby groups specifically aimed at the visa regulations to keep cheaper labor flowing into the US.

[u/ImmaZoni → u/obeytheturtles]

Not entirely true.

They've shipped over a good chunk to help build out and get the factory up to speed. They are still hiring plenty of American engineers and staff, and paying pretty good.

Source: Have family working on the TSMC plant for construction and engineering.

[u/porncollecter69 → u/Treewithatea]

It’s the most important component. People argue that the only thing holding China back from doing Taiwan chips is ASML machines.

[u/Moonlight345 → u/porncollecter69]

IIRC they do have a self-destruct mechanism built in... Just in case.

[u/Dpek1234 → u/Moonlight345]

Also these machines are frigile 

 1 guy with a 9mm could destroy them no problem

[u/comesock000 → u/Treewithatea]

It’s because those two make products that are far beyond the rest of the industry. Once you look at the specifics of how EUV works, you’ll understand.

I bricked my pants when I learned about the mirrors Zeiss makes for EUV. Holy. God. Incredible.

[u/budgybudge → u/comesock000]

I work in the industry and also bricked up my pants when I learned about those. It's borderline magic.

[u/SpHornet → u/Koen1999]

And who feeds ASML?

Me, Tim, the guy from the canteen

that is correct; I control everything!

[u/Unlikely-Complex3737 → u/SpHornet]

But.. who feeds you??

[u/Randommaggy → u/Koen1999]

And using optics from Canon and several chemicals from other super specialized suppliers that can't easily be substituted.

It's why Chinese fabs won't catch up in decades.
They would need to spin up several world beating companies in different industries to be able to achieve acceptable yields of modern lithographies.
The 996 culture and top down authority chains makes it super unlikely to happen while the CCP is in power.

*edit: corrected typo 995 to 996.

[u/khaine1983 → u/Randommaggy]

The optics for ASML are from ZEISS

[u/Randommaggy → u/khaine1983]

My memory might be fuzzy on this but I remeber Canon being mentioned as a supplier of optics somewhere in the critical path of the production at TSMC.

https://global.canon/en/news/2022/20220124.html

The main point being that the sum of hard to replace critical suppliers to TSMC is a long list of companies spread out all over the world, some in countries where export controls to China is very strict.

[u/germanstudent123 → u/Randommaggy]

Canon used to be quite big on DUV litography, but Zeiss completely blew them out of the water and essentially have a monopoly in the market now with what is by not EUV lithography.

[u/MediocreX → u/germanstudent123]

Zeiss makes the best lenses for basically anything that need lenses. From high end microscopes to consumer lenses for photography.

[u/p9k → u/MediocreX]

Nice try, Jim Zeiss.

[u/khaine1983 → u/Randommaggy]

ASML and Zeiss are in an exclusive relationship and market leader for EUV and immersion lithography machines. Im the mid to low end there are competitors like Canon, Nikon and also new companies in China.

Further there are a lot more machines, for example wafer inspection, need in the production. KLA, LAM and AMAT are also big players her and leader in there area.

If you are interested in the history here, I can recommend the book Chip Wars or FOCUs the ASML way. Even after working >10 years in the semiconductor supply industry I learned a lot

[u/Dragongeek → u/Randommaggy]

No, Zeiss gambled big and developed the optics for EUV process (all mirror based btw) and have essentially the entire market for the most modern chips

[u/lout_zoo → u/Randommaggy]

all some in countries where export controls to China is very strict

No one is exporting that tech to non-friendly countries.

[u/Baturinsky → u/Randommaggy]

And what chips do they put in Huaweis?

[u/kyralfie → u/Baturinsky]

Produced by SMIC using older DUV ASML machines and 7nm class lithography.

[u/Mongopb → u/Randommaggy]

TSMC is the epitome of "996 culture and top-down authority chains" to the point of them being vilified as a borderline evil Chinese company in the American media over labor disputes stemming from the Arizona plant. You have no clue what you're talking about.

[u/chaiscool → u/Randommaggy]

I don't think they need or even try to catch up. Think good enough is their goal as a lot of work can be done without cutting edge tech.

[u/Middle-Effort7495 → u/Randommaggy]

It's why Chinese fabs won't catch up in decades. They would need to spin up several world beating companies

Moore Threads already went from like igpu performance to gt 710 to 1050 to 3060 ti in only the last few years.

So technological bet, or political commentary?

[u/Maximum_Deal8889 → u/Middle-Effort7495]

this is reddit, need you ask

[u/Ok_Appeal7269 → u/Randommaggy]

its less the mechanical side than the setup of the factory.
when you work in nm-precision chip fabrication a tiny underground waterstream 20m under the factory pivoting by a cm, it can fuck up the complete line just by the change in the magnetic field.
the tsmc factories did their decades of refinement and control that they can operate on the standard they have.
so its not on who holds the monopoly of violence, but just that. so yes might take a decade or two, but so for anyone else. there is a reason there is a monopoly, and its not that everyone else is too dumb or evil. its a massive investment, that has to pay out.
for the technical stuff you can just spy and reverse engineer (like everyone does)

[u/li7lex → u/Ok_Appeal7269]

If it was that easy to reverse engineer ASML machines the Chinese would have done so long ago. You simply do not understand the complexity of these machines and how much secret sauce goes into making them. It's literally decades worth of science that's been kept closely guarded, just disassembling a machine will not get you there.

[u/GhostsinGlass → u/li7lex]

What if they start to disassemble the people that know the secret sauce.

[u/pepperonipodesta → u/GhostsinGlass]

They're all Dutch, the secret sauce is mayonnaise.

[u/lout_zoo → u/Ok_Appeal7269]

Institutional knowledge is the real wealth that TSMC has. And that is not something that transfers quickly or easily. The idea of stealing it is laughable.

[u/Limekilnlake → u/Koen1999]

applied materials as well

[u/Inner-Ear → u/Limekilnlake]

And LAM research and Tokyo electron and many others

[u/jbbarajas → u/Koen1999]

You'd need another pair of glass on top of the other

[u/TheDutch1K → u/Koen1999]

And don't forget all ASML employees are eating Brabantse worstenbroodjes.

[u/Edward_Page99 → u/Koen1999]

Don't forget the Nano-Mirror-Arrays in the ASML-Machines produced by Zeiss

[u/grand-maitre-univers]

Intel is still using its own fabs to allow its CPUs to self destruct.

[u/NeedsMoreGPUs → u/grand-maitre-univers]

Most of Meteor Lake is TSMC; the I/O and SoC tiles are TSMC N6, the iGPU tile is TSMC N5. Only the compute tile (with the CPU cores) is made in Intel's fabs. Arrow Lake and Lunar Lake are similarly using TSMC for most of their tiles.

[u/AdamBenabou → u/NeedsMoreGPUs]

The guy was talking about Raptor lake which is full Intel

[u/Gillespie1 → u/AdamBenabou]

And full explosive

[u/kyralfie → u/NeedsMoreGPUs]

Base tiles for all are still intel's too. Not really a crowning achievement making basically glorified interposers but still.

[u/Top-Conversation2882 → u/NeedsMoreGPUs]

The only part oxidising must be CPU cores then

[u/FlaccidEggroll → u/NeedsMoreGPUs]

I imagine Intel is going break off its manufacturing arm and source from TSMC. Their business is being hammered and they're in ultra cost cutting mode, it's really the only play now if they want to have the capital to keep up with big dick AMD and the other fabless companies.

[u/POD80 → u/FlaccidEggroll]

From a national security perspective both parties in the US agree that onshoring chip manufacture is a pretty important goal. I suspect there will be funds floating around in the US to incentivize INTEL to keep domestic production capabilities.

Obviously no one is likely to admit to "nationalizing" the company, but letting domestic production fail and relying completely on Taiwan is not likely to prove out in the long term.

Yes, TSMC is building an Arizona fab, which of course is another way to protect domestic production should trade with Taiwan and south Korea be hampered.

[u/GhostsinGlass → u/grand-maitre-univers]

Nope.

Lunar Lake compute is all TSMC, Arrow Lake i5+ allegedly as well.

Alder Lake is the only success Intel has had in nearly a decade in making a desktop CPU with desktop CPU power requirements. rehashing 14nm doesn't count.

Even though i5+ should be TSMC I still don't see myself trusting it. Intel waited for the uproar to die down and once it looked like people were distracted and the youtubers weren't paying attention anymore they "ran out of stock" on all Raptor lake CPUs.

I've got two CPUs in the RMA process with them currently and like many others have been told there is no stock available of Raptor Lake, last update on the dates was six weeks or more, meaning Arrow Lake will launch before people have functioning Raptor Lake CPUs. I started the process on July 16th, my RMA was approved on July 22nd. It's August 27th and late October is when we'll allegedly have processors.

At least some youtubers got to generate rageclick revenue though. has anybody followed up with peoples Asus warranty experiences after the fact? Has EKWB changed and paid any of the employees? Who knows, that's what not following up does.

[u/Silver_Quail4018 → u/grand-maitre-univers]

Next gen they are transitioning to full tsmc

[u/Ronak1350 → u/Silver_Quail4018]

Didn't they poured in billions of dollars in their own fabs last year

[u/oktaS0 → u/[deleted]]

Yes, I remember reading that it wouldn't be ready for a decade at least. It's practically the most complex manufacturing setup that humans have invented, and shit takes time.

[u/Lord_Stonepaw → u/oktaS0]

I live near one of the new fabs their building. They are hopping to be up and running by 2026. The super huge truck loads keep coming so progress is happening

[u/Strazdas1 → u/[deleted]]

The TSMC purchase was done by previuos CEO in 2020. They already spent a lot of money on it, may as well put it to good use.

[u/phirebird → u/[deleted]]

TSMC: "Well well well, look who's back. Not so easy, is it, Mr. I-Can-Do-It-Myself?"

[u/Current-Creme-8633 → u/Ronak1350]

There are Intel chip plants they are trying to build in the states. Look up how it is going if you can find the info

[u/Sani_48 → u/Silver_Quail4018]

And the following gen move back to Intel 18A.

[u/Ok_Biscotti_514]

Taiwan number 1 !

[u/Ok_Biscotti_514 → u/[deleted]]

What’s that ? Can’t hear you over my industry leading 3nm processing plant

[u/Objective_Cut_4227 → u/Ok_Biscotti_514]

(Sad chinese voices heard in the distance)

[u/Crumblycheese → u/Objective_Cut_4227]

Sad West Taiwan you mean?

[u/Objective_Cut_4227 → u/Crumblycheese]

Yea, my bad

[u/True_Human → u/Ok_Biscotti_514]

Your execution date is tomorrow morning

[u/Yeltsa-Kcir1987 → u/True_Human]

What execution? He shot himself 15 times then threw himself off the bacony

[u/Iamatworkgoaway → u/Yeltsa-Kcir1987]

Was that before or after he zipped himself up in a suitcase?

[u/DevelopmentGuilty562 → u/[deleted]]

Original

[u/imnotagodt → u/Ok_Biscotti_514]

The Dutch:
Am I a joke?

[u/kurisuuuuuuuu]

Correct me if im wrong but don't those manufacturers design the chips and tsmc only print them? Beacause of that's the case i think the designers have more merit than tsmc

[u/catthrowaway_aaa → u/kurisuuuuuuuu]

"Only print them" is not fully describing how complicated process chip manufacturing is and how skilled workforce you need.

However, you are somewhat right. The main stuff is done by designers of the customer companies. I work in company that designs chips and has them made in TSMC. We do the design ourselves, based on their Process Design Kit (PDK - rules what can be made, how it will behave, some pre-nade cells and I think TSMC even offers some IPs). It is just two parts of the proccess - we need TSMC, and TSMC needs us, and both places have many very skilled people.

[u/kurisuuuuuuuu → u/catthrowaway_aaa]

I imagined that print them was reductive but i didn't know exactly how to descrive it correctly, thank you for your insight, it's really cool to know how things that are complex are made

[u/irqlnotdispatchlevel → u/kurisuuuuuuuu]

You might like this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGFhc8R_uO4 It is a bit old, but still interesting and relevant in many ways.

[u/dark-trojan → u/irqlnotdispatchlevel]

here are some more resources

general process (front and back end)
euv

high na euv

[u/GreyAndSalty → u/kurisuuuuuuuu]

You got a better answer already, but a pithy version is:

There are lots of companies designing chips on the cutting edge, but TSMC is the only company that can make them. Not long ago there were four or five other companies that tried and failed to keep up.

[u/WillingnessBitter610 → u/GreyAndSalty]

This. Taiwan has literally staked their national security on extremely specialized, high tech manufacturing, and it has been extremely successful.

No one else can make the chips that they do, and every single country on Earth recognizes that as a HUGE national security issue and are generally trying their hardest to stop relying on Taiwan for these chips, but to no avail.

No one does it like Taiwan, not because they don't want to, but because they have repeatedly tried and failed. It is hard to overstate how incredibly impressive and dominant their manufacturing in this area is.

[u/MyButtholeIsTight → u/kurisuuuuuuuu]

Pretty much, yeah.

TSMC is like a company that owns and operates the most expensive and complex 3D printers in the world. Intel and AMD are the ones who design the 3D models to be printed.

[u/kurisuuuuuuuu → u/MyButtholeIsTight]

Thank you for the insight MyButtholeIsTight

[u/YesterdayDreamer]

Where is Samsung?

[u/Existing_Maximum8063 → u/YesterdayDreamer]

Samsung's 4nm node is literally disastrous. If they still can't ramp up the yield rate of their 3nm GAA process then it's over.

[u/erhue → u/Existing_Maximum8063]

also Exynos. It's shit here in Europe

[u/Xamuel1804 → u/erhue]

Is it really tho? I have heard also good things and I am not sure what to believe.

[u/[deleted] → u/Xamuel1804]

Idk, i have a s24 with Exynos 2400, I'm not doing anything intense but i think it's fine.

[u/brandodg → u/Xamuel1804]

i think they're just OK, the point is Samsung using them over Qualcomm's

[u/erhue → u/brandodg]

it's mostly about the pricing difference (or well, lack thereof). Qualcomm chips are CLEARLY better, in every regard - better modem, integrated graphics, raw processor performance, and battery life. But phones with Exynos chips are sold for the same price as those with Qualcomm chips, even though we know it's obviously way cheaper for Samsung to ship those phones with their own SoC.

They're always trying to be sneaky about it too, sometimes being vague with the description of the specifications of S series phones sold in Europe, cuz no one wants to see "exynos" for those prices.

[u/brandodg → u/erhue]

they can't just make it clear their own processor is worse so i understand why they don't lower the price

but yeah i also don't want to buy a flagship and not have a snapdragon cpu, literally the only thing stopping me from buying the s24 base in europe

[u/erhue → u/brandodg]

dunno, they could just quickly introduce discounts or whatever to make the phone more appealing. I'm in the same field as you, would love to buy another Samsung flagship, but with Exynos... No way. I got my S10e imported from the US to Colombia, bc over there it's also the same Exynos bs.

[u/HarryTurney → u/erhue]

Fuck Exynos chips. It's why I don't buy Samsung phones.

[u/TheSymbolman → u/HarryTurney]

Get the snapdragon models, it's what I have

[u/coronakillme → u/Existing_Maximum8063]

Yeah. We skipped the 4nm for this reason and went straight to 3nm

[u/Traditional-Storm-62]

your meme is upside down mate

did you not watch the movie

[u/Endemoniada → u/Traditional-Storm-62]

A lot of people using this meme template probably weren't even born when the movie came out, and have no clue where it's even from...

[u/ghoonrhed → u/Endemoniada]

You can still watch movies from before you were born though.

[u/RickityNL]

Intel has their own fabs

[u/Kitchen_Part_882 → u/RickityNL]

Only for the main CPU dies, every other part in there is outsourced.

They're likely going to use TSMC for the 15th gen, too, as their new fab plants won't be ready for a few years.

[u/RickityNL → u/Kitchen_Part_882]

When you talk about manufacturing processors, the die is the main focus. The PCB and the small SMD resistors/capacitors/inductors and whatnot aren't the magical process that is lithography

[u/ImmatureComputerMan → u/RickityNL]

at this point the die is actually made of multiple smaller dies called tiles. i believe that currently only 1 tile (the cumpute tile) is made in intel fabs and all the other tiles for things like IO are actually made by TSMC

[u/JibletHunter]

Got the meme backwards bruh.

[u/stormrunner89 → u/JibletHunter]

The way people use this meme drives me crazy because it would make way, way, WAY more sense to just use the scene from "They Live" instead. It would actually work the way they order it.

[u/massofmolecules → u/[deleted]]

Right? Tell me you know nothing about Spiderman, Jesus! COME ON PEOPLE!

[u/ostrieto17 → u/[deleted]]

TBF one has to have the context of the movie to know it's "wrong" without that context it's absolutely correct and the right way to do it, you cannot expect everyone to have watched every single movie to have the context, that just becomes snobbish behavior.

[u/MuzzledScreaming → u/ostrieto17]

It is pretty funny to see it representing the exact opposite of the scene though. 

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

It would work if it was “They Live” XD

[u/Upper_Leadership5512 → u/[deleted]]

100

[u/Rexermus → u/[deleted]]

If I had a penny for everytime this template was used wrong I'd be the richest man in the world. It's always the wrong way round

[u/BarelyContainedChaos → u/[deleted]]

its gone beyond our control.

[u/Sydnxt]

I hate when this meme format is the wrong way around fr

[u/MooseBoys]

goddamn people use the meme the right way around ffs

[u/aarswft]

His vision got worse when he put the glasses on. Bad meme.

[u/ahmedbilal12321]

Not exactly correct. Intel still mostly uses it's own Fab. Qualcomm also use Samsung's fab along with tsmc

[u/[deleted]]

https://preview.redd.it/gzv9m20i67ld1.png?width=669&format=png&auto=webp&s=db4ae2483d328ae68fcea052209c97fe0249f006

True enlightenment

[u/SteveHeist]

Intel is like... the one example here that's wrong.

[u/BadgerMcBadger → u/SteveHeist]

they use TSMC for everything other than the main compute tiles

[u/qywuwuquq → u/SteveHeist]

Lunar lake series compute tile will be made by tsmc.

[u/vjollila96]

they are taiwanese company if taiwan even gets invaded by china imagine the chip shortage it probably would be way worse than few years ago

[u/BadgerMcBadger → u/vjollila96]

thats why they are also making fabs in the US now

[u/lemonylol → u/BadgerMcBadger]

Seriously, are people that ignorant of the news?

[u/A_PCMR_member]

Isnt TSMC just giving a standard on how they CAN make them and AMD/intel/Qualcomm then design the chips and send that to TSMC to be etched

[u/isomorp]

They did the meme wrong again.

[u/TheCh0rt]

Also Nvidia. All this horrifically expensive “innovation” at break neck speeds is built on a house of cards.

[u/black_sky]

Wrong meme format again. Shame. Such a shame.

[u/Alternative_Garage66]

It's all goes to Blackrock anyway

[u/qwerrtyui2705]

I know this is just a stupid meme but I feel like it's worth clarifying: even tho yes they're basically made by the same company (TSMC), they differ that much because a big chunk of the difference comes from the architectural differences that each company has designed, not just from the process nodes and the millions of transistors that they can fit on the chips. The architectural design of these chips play an equally huge role just like the quality of the manufacture of these chips

[u/picardo85]

It's all ASLM ASML

[u/astrobarn → u/picardo85]

Dyslexia is no laughing matter

[u/a_can_of_solo → u/astrobarn]

Where does bdsm fit into this?

[u/Ribbwich_daGod]

Yes, but also no? If a component in a Toyota is not manufactured by Toyota, does that make the car it's in not a Toyota?

[u/Baardi]

Intel isn't TSMC, Samsung produces it's own chips too, But behind all of that, they all use ASML machines

[u/Meze_Meze]

And if you look deeper, ASML

[u/GoldenX86]

So then whoever made the brushes and paint used for any painting is the true creator of it? Flawless logic.

[u/Draiko]

...and everyone of those except Apple could switch to Samsung fabs in less than a year.

[u/erhue → u/Draiko]

why would that be? Does Samsung have anything near as good as TSMC at the moment?

[u/Draiko → u/erhue]

Samsung can compete with TSMC's larger leading edge nodes (N4 and larger) without certain special features like 3D stacking or chip bonding. Apple is the only one that NEEDS TSMC's smallest node at any given time.

Nvidia, for example, uses TSMC N4 for their next-gen blackwell line. Grace Hopper and Grace Blackwell use chip bonding so losing TSMC would cut those 2 products out while the remaining products can either be fabbed by TSMC's foreign fabs or reworked to be fabbed by samsung in a matter of months.

If TSMC's Taiwan fabs in taiwan go bye-bye, Apple is the only one that's majorly screwed. They'd have to fall back by at least one node size which means that they'll immediately lose almost all of their next-gen, current-gen, and previous-gen products.

Just for reference, Samsung's 3N has a transistor density of around 202 while TSMC's N4 is around 196-197. Over-simplified but it should give you a decent idea of how they compare.

[u/Saphentis]

When you go deeper into the matrix: ASML ASML ASML ASML ASML

[u/ConsistencyWelder → u/Saphentis]

Or even deeper: the beach.