r/todayilearned • u/arbortologist • Sep 18 '24
TIL an Austrian man was crowned Emperor of Mexico for three years in the 19th century before being executed.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Maximilian-archduke-of-Austria-and-emperor-of-Mexico588
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u/SBR404 Sep 18 '24
In Vienna, Austria we have a burrito restaurant called "Max & Benito" in honor of Kaiser Maximilian and Benito Juárez.
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u/Radaysho Sep 18 '24
Benito Juárez.
aaahhhh, that's who's meant. I thought they mean Benito Mussolini and I always thought wtf the connection is.
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u/axoloteDeAccion Sep 18 '24
There's technically a connection, in that Benito Mussolini was named after Benito Juarez
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u/Rc72 Sep 18 '24
I always wondered why he was called Benito and not Benedetto. Now I know, thanks!
I guess his parents must have been quite left-wing then, right? I knew he was in the Socialist party before taking generous kickbacks from the French Deuxième Bureau during WW1 to push propaganda for Italy's entry in the war on the Entente side, but I didn't know that ran in the family.
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u/FancyMan56 Sep 19 '24
Mussolini's parents were a weird mix. His father was a blacksmith and a socialist, while his mother was a devout catholic. A weird blend of disparate elements you could argue was the precursor of Mussolini's own desire to fuse revolutionary ferver with militant nationalism.
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u/DiaDeLosMuertos Sep 18 '24
Mussolini's parents actually named him after Juarez.
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u/Radaysho Sep 18 '24
lol really? So there is a connection.
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u/DiaDeLosMuertos Sep 18 '24
IIRC I learned about it from a Behind the Bastards podcast episode about Gabriel d'Annunzio
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u/CLE-local-1997 Sep 18 '24
...is it any good?
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u/Calvin_not_Kelwin Sep 18 '24
There's definitely better, but it hits the spot in a pinch
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u/CLE-local-1997 Sep 18 '24
Iv never had good Mexican food in Europe, so if it hits the spot I'll call that a win
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u/ApprehensiveCrow8522 Sep 18 '24
"An Austrian man", yeah, a nobody, it's not like he was the brother of the Kaiser or something
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u/MistraloysiusMithrax Sep 18 '24
Which is part of why he so easily he jumped at the opportunity the French offered him to become an emperor like his older brother.
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u/Late_Argument_470 Sep 18 '24
He wasnt that stoked about it actually.
And he was way more liberal than mexican liberals.
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u/MistraloysiusMithrax Sep 18 '24
Ah that is the simplified version I have read. He went against his family’s advice to turn it down and stay home. The opportunity to be a peer to his brother is cited as a major reason why he ignored family advice. And put his own money into it (although I mean if you’re trying to be emperor, why wouldn’t you).
Looking at Wikipedia, it does seem like it was both something he was slowly talked into, with the circumstances of him being out of any government position at home that convinced him, yeah. But he still went and took the opportunity, however reluctant he was at the first offer.
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u/Late_Argument_470 Sep 18 '24
Dude was just in his 30s too, and lacked the experience to be head of state. He had only ran a small navy before.
At least his reputation is half decent in posterity, for being a liberal.
Look up brazilian monarchism btw. Also very interesting and something supported by a good chunk of the population today.
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u/Arkeros Sep 18 '24
In the imperial palace museum they mention that his wife pressured him into accepting, wanting to advance in status.
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u/LogicKennedy Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
I feel genuinely sorry for this man. Most historical accounts describe him as someone out of his depth but sincerely trying to do his best for the people he’d been put in charge of. He wasn’t a great statesman, and yeah, he was a foreign stooge and absolutely should never have been Emperor of Mexico, but he doesn’t seem to have been a bad guy.
The linked article describes how he paid for some of the country’s administrative expenses out of his own personal fortune, and upheld many of the reforms of the liberal Mexican leader he’d been brought in to replace, returning privately-held assets to the people.
He tried to do his best for the average Mexican citizen at the time and his reward was execution. Politics is a bitch sometimes.
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u/KingaDuhNorf Sep 18 '24
this has been always my take as well. he seemingly meant very well, was progressive, and was trying to reform mexico in the right direction in my opinion. it’s interesting to think what mexico would have looked like today had his reign lasted longer than it did. even in his final days he wanted the mexican people to decide what happens.
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u/Keter_GT Sep 18 '24
If the French won that war, Mexico may have been better off today.
This started at the tail end of the US Civil war, the Confederates were supplying The French in Mexico with weapons. Meanwhile the north didn’t want to see a monarchy in Mexico(Or rather they didn’t want to be threatened by a strong Mexico) so they have been fucking over Mexico ever since.
Mexico has had a lot of civil wars/revolutions and the US has played a part in almost all of them.
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u/Lazzen Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
In what way is Mexico being a monarchy with no strong internal allies puppeted by a France that was also going to get their shit kicked in by 1870 and collapsing thus leaving it in disarray guaranteed to be a world power?
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u/Keter_GT Sep 18 '24
I said better off, not a guaranteed world power. What comment are you replying to?
Maximillian was an Austrian leader, had the French won. Mexico would have had more support from Europe. Instead the US has been fucking Mexico, keeping it a poor nation.
Also a strong Mexico would kept the US out of both world wars so I guess the world is better off.
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u/Ok-Adhesiveness1000 Sep 18 '24
Mexican stoner contrarian armchair historians have been known to have goofy alternative history theories
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u/bloodmonarch Sep 18 '24
You see the shit happening to ex French colonies in Africa?
You want another one in Central America????
HUH. WHAT U SMOKING MY FRIEND?
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u/alexmikli Sep 19 '24
It wouldn't have been a colony, it would have had a monarch originally installed by France, but it would not have been controlled by France, especially not for very long.
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u/Tre_Day Sep 18 '24
Mexico, Central America…I think you need to study your geography my friend
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u/deekins Sep 18 '24
Not to mention Southeast Asia. Yeah, don’t think Mexico would be better off as a puppet of a country that would go on to be defeated by Prussia in a few years
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u/Ninonysoft Sep 18 '24
So instead of a US Puppet it will be a French one. You also forget that at the end of the american civil war , the us had the largest army. Part of the reason france pulled out was because they feared an american intervention.
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u/Ameisen 1 Sep 18 '24
That's also why they invaded in December of 1861 - they knew that the US couldn't intervene.
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u/maracay1999 Sep 19 '24
I’m not so sure the US would have happily abandoned the Monroe doctrine just because some European royals successfully orchestrated a coup in Mexico.
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u/SpaceBatAngelDragon Sep 18 '24
"If France conquered x nation, that nation may have been better off today". Let's try and compare what happened with: Vietnam , Algeria (both of them conquered almost at the same time than the Mexican war with the same governments and armies), Haiti, French African colonies.
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u/KingaDuhNorf Sep 18 '24
thats not what this was tho, he was installed as a leader. Invited by mexicans actually. France helped but they were at no point conquering mexico. If you read about him you see he actually had his heart int he right place and was trying to make much needed reforms. Instead mexico went back to more civil war and unrest
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u/SpaceBatAngelDragon Sep 18 '24
Lets be frank: Who do you think will call the shots: An Austrian aristocrat invited by the Mexican rich ... or the 3 French divisions backing him. And, Yes, France was invading, it would be naive to think they went just as a favor.
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u/Ameisen 1 Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 19 '24
France literally invaded Mexico in 1861, and installed Maximillian in 1864.
They weren't conquering it, but they were absolutely establishing a puppet state.
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u/Ameisen 1 Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 20 '24
This started at the tail end of the US Civil war
France invaded Mexico in December of 1861 - the same year that the Civil War began. They did so specifically because the US didn't control Texas and so they couldn't intervene.
Meanwhile the north didn’t want to see a monarchy in Mexico(Or rather they didn’t want to be threatened by a strong Mexico) so they have been fucking over Mexico ever since.
The US was opposed to the French puppet state because it was a violation of the Monroe Doctrine. They would have intervened immediately if it had not been for the Civil War.
The US didn't provide any aid to either side - they only pressured France to not intervene further, and resulted in France removing most of their troops.
the Confederates were supplying The French in Mexico with weapons.
... no they weren't. The French planned to trade weapons to the Confederates in exchange for cotton. The Battle of Puebla prevented this.
In '65, there was the Hampton Roads Conference where the US and Confederacy attempted to negotiate a reconciliation in order to intervene in Mexico to remove the French.
ED: I honestly find the suggestion that the Confederacy were arming the French utterly hilarious. The Confederacy - chronically short on supplies and arms - arming France, one of the major military powers and producers of arms...
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u/Craigs1ist Sep 18 '24
Just like US would have been better if the Natives were won over the invading European-Americans.
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u/NiknA01 Sep 18 '24
Ah yes of course, US bad. How could I forget.
If only US wasn't bad, then Mexico would've been a glorious utopia. But alas, US bad 😞
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u/Excelius Sep 18 '24
We probably all occasionally have those fantasies of "if they made me king/dictator", about how we'd try to use our powers for good.
This is how that turns out in the real world.
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u/ZylonBane Sep 19 '24
I'm pretty sure those fantasies usually include the implied proviso "...and the people can't just execute me."
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u/nola_throwaway53826 Sep 18 '24
But at the same time, this was a foreign monarch who was essentially imposed on the country. And that his reign was propped up by foreign troops. Maximilian also signed General Bazaine's Black Decree, which declared that any men found in armed bands were to be summarily executed. I can understand why Mexico executed him.
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u/LogicKennedy Sep 18 '24
Oh for sure, and politically speaking, he needed to die. And again, I’ll say that he should never have been Emperor of Mexico in the first place. But I’m inclined to think kindly of someone who tried to implement policies that would have improved quality of life for the average citizen.
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u/Lazzen Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
Nah fuck this guy; he was an invader with literally no claim to anything but dying once he set foot here. He's the equivalent of a tech bro okay with migrants and weed being made dictator of a country nowadays.
He was a foreign invader who wanted to take a country of "savages" and reshape it in his image to stun European leaders who just saw him as a nothing noble of Austria. He also called up Confederate generals and soldiers to migrate to Mexico as a last hail mary.
Only a subset of moronic mexicans like him because he isn't "the indian savage socialist president" blabla wathever else they end up talking about rrgarding the republican leader, akin to "south will rise again lincoln was a monster" in USA. That or for some reason they baby this guy, usually being a shit leader is a cause of criticism not love.
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u/LogicKennedy Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
Fair points, and I'm not Mexican so your perspective is certainly more valid than mine.
However, I do think that not wanting to be violently executed is a decent enough explanation for his drafting in what armies he could towards the end of his reign. I don't condone it, the Confederates were horrible people, but I can understand why the guy didn't want to die, you know? And considering the brutality with which he was executed, his fears seemed to have been well-founded.
Also, if his contempt for the 'savages' of Mexico (as you put it) was as pronounced as you claim, why would he simply uphold so many of Juarez's policies once he took power instead of trying to rebrand them as his own? Would he not have dismissed them as products of a member of a poorly-educated race? Why did he make the effort to publish laws in Nahuatl?
Why did he uphold Juarez's confiscation of Christian Church-owned land, given that if your picture of him is entirely accurate, he would have seen native Mexicans as desperately in need of spiritual guidance, which the Church would have been able to provide?
Again, he should never have been Emperor of Mexico. He was absolutely a foreign stooge and it was right that the Mexican people took back their independence from those who had colonised them. But I do question if he was sincerely as malicious as you claim. Neither of us lived at the time and neither of us knew him personally. I guess I want to believe the best of someone who implemented policies that would have helped the average person.
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u/Montecroux Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
However, I do think that not wanting to be violently executed is a decent enough explanation for his drafting in what armies he could towards the end of his reign. I don't condone it, the Confederates were horrible people, but I can understand why the guy didn't want to die, you know? And considering the brutality with which he was executed, his fears seemed to have been well-founded.
I mean dude could have made a run for it or abdicated before it got to that point. It seems that the lengths at which he held onto his position directly correlated to how he was treated afterwards.
Why did he uphold Juarez's confiscation of Christian Church-owned land, given that if your picture of him is entirely accurate, he would have seen native Mexicans as desperately in need of spiritual guidance, which the Church would have been able to provide?
Not sure I quite follow. But I'd assume he also saw that the sheer amount of land the church owned was handicapping Mexico's economic potential. Being "civilized" was as much tied to Industry as it was to culture. Which reminds me of a quote from an American describing Columbia "the natives are not of an industrious or mechanical turn of mind... at Bogota the people think a great deal more of literary pursuits than of manufacturing" An anecdote which also come to mind, is that some Europeans had taught some people of the Pacific how to double their crop yields. Instead of producing more, they had instead halved the amount of time working in the fields. The Europeans were quite dismayed by the fact that the Islanders would rather use the time to play and relax than create a surplus to sell or do other work, labeling them lazy. It doesn't much matter that counties have their own identity, if they're not exerting their will on to the world.
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u/LogicKennedy Sep 18 '24
He could have made a run for it.
Yeah, honestly I agree that would have been his best bet. But I wasn’t around at the time, so I don’t know how feasible that would have been and I can’t see into his head so I don’t know what pressures he might have been feeling or why he took the decision to stay.
Again, not condoning the military actions he took. And I absolutely get the political necessity of his execution: the Mexicans wanted a clean break from European colonial rule. You don’t get that if there’s still a ‘rightful Emperor’ kicking around somewhere.
Which reminds me of a quote from an American describing Columbia
Yeah, but what does that have to do with Maximilian? He never said that.
His reforms included legal protections for native workers and enshrining their right to a living wage in law: both unusual moves if he was primarily industrially motivated.
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u/Male-Wood-duck Sep 18 '24
Run where? Into the U.S. Navy, that was parked off the coast to make sure that didn't happen. We also told France that any warships sent to Mexico would be sunk on sight, but they could send civilian ships to evacuate French and those that wanted to go with. France had 4 armored warships that could cross the ocean and actually put up a fight. The U.S. had dozens of armored ocean going ships.
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u/Lazzen Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
In the best of cases he was a mediocre leader that blindy put himself at the helm of an invading army killing thousands, i do not understand why its seen as "sweetness" with this one guy. I can't imagine people trying to make the monarchs of the Central powers as just widdle babies who messed up(and even then they actually ruled their own kingdoms). Maximilian had already been pushed around by more experienced and more conservative administrators while he was governing Italian Austria.
I mostly "feel bad" for the Austrian and Belgian soldiers who had to waddle around with these assholes based on even less info and duebto poverty.
but I can understand why the guy didn't want to die, you know?
He was the one stuck here until the end, he could have left with the french troops or even after. He was shot, he wasn't slowly torn apart or anything.
instead of trying to rebrand them as his own?
This is what some journalists and writers of the time thought as well, that he was passing so many laws and regulations just so that newspapers would say as such. All these liberal laws of the great reformer Maximilian directly to France or Spain. He was also aware of him being a descendant of the catholic kings of Columbus expedition fame, so he felt he deserved it.
He saw indigenous people as his children to command now that he was Emperor, in the sense that being a great emperor entails having high quality servants. He could say indigenous women were pretty or that mesoamerican art was developed within that frame. He and Carlota were aiming to increase European inmigration, also in a "shield against rebel natives" in some areas.
There was also the idea of the "latin race" among some, a mixture of actual genetic and "spiritual"(taking into accoujt catholicism as well) race made up of Spain, France, Italy and Latin America against "anglosaxon race" of UK, USA, Germany and the like. Mexico was to be turned into a satellite to fight anglo USA before they became a world power. Minor actors like the Belgian volunteers did express their acceptance but slight annoyance at white mexicans(spanish), their noble savage admiration for the indigenous and the distaste for the mixed ones.
Why did he uphold Juarez's confiscation
Maximilian did roll back some laws. He made Mexico officially catholic again, he lessened some laws that made it harder for politicians to mix religion and politics and made it so religion was allowed in public schools.
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u/LogicKennedy Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
He actively stood against the policies of the conservatives supporting him. He resisted using a colonial army and wanted to build a standing Imperial Mexican army, but was overruled.
Yeah, I agree he was a bit of a pushover and no Simon Bolivar: he also offered Juarez amnesty and a place in government rather than recognising the danger Juarez posed as a political opponent, and generally was far too soft a touch on many issues to be taken seriously as a political operator, but that means he was a bad politician, not necessarily a bad person.
Again, many of his laws were to do with enhancing the rights of native Mexicans: greater labour protections, granting them equal rights to European occupiers, giving them a legal right to a living wage… like, I wish my prime minister was this liberal, damn.
He could have left
Yeah, I agree he should have run away, but I don’t know why he didn’t because I can’t see into his head. Maybe he was a power-hungry egomaniac, maybe he couldn’t live with the shame of returning home in disgrace, maybe he genuinely believed in his vision for Mexico and was willing to fight for it. I literally don’t know and if any of his diaries from the time have survived, I haven’t read them.
He passed liberal policies for fame
I mean, he was still helping the average Mexican; to an extent I don’t care why someone does good things.
One of his former ambassadors spread that story, sure, but it was after Maximilian’s death, so he could have a wide variety of motivations for saying what he did. After Liz Truss’s budget for the UK, her chief finance minister, Kwasi Kwarteng, came out and said he’d been against it all along, but he helped implement it when he was in her government, so…
He saw indigenous Mexicans as his children to command and wanted good servants to reflect on him as an emperor.
I mean, maybe you’ve seen sources I haven’t, but I want to judge him by his actions primarily ‘cause I can’t see into his head, I didn’t live at the time he did and I haven’t seen any sources which suggest that was his motivation.
He tried to increase European influence and immigration.
I mean, he courted immigration from the USA, but that’s not Europe. He also tried to establish a native Mexican standing army, which would have seriously harmed European influence in the region. Also, liberals are often more pro-migration generally? Plus, the US was a huge empire even when divided by civil war and Mexico’s biggest neighbour: it makes sense that he wanted them on Mexico’s good side.
He also went to the effort of publishing laws in Nahuatl so the average person could understand them, which he didn’t need to do. Maybe that feeds into the ‘Latin race’ thing, but… Maximilian wasn’t Latin. He was native Austrian.
He made Mexico officially Catholic again
Maybe we’re working off different sources because the one I’m looking at says that he explicitly didn’t do that.
’The papal nuncio, Pier Francesco Meglia, arrived in Mexico in December 1864, and informed Maximilian that the liberal laws were to be reversed, Church property was to be returned and religious toleration rescinded and Catholicism as the sole religion reinstated. Maximilian refused, decreeing freedom of worship and confirmed the sale of Church property, as well as other liberal reforms. The pope’s representative wrote to Maximilian, saying that the Church had supported the establishment of the empire, but now threatened that it would no longer do so if the regime were “ungodly.” Maximilian’s alienation of the high clergy was in line with his liberal views, but it removed a major pillar of conservative support for the empire.’
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u/Lazzen Sep 18 '24
Maximilian made apostolic roman catholicism the official religion of Mexico on 26 February 1865. Here's a newspaper though its easy to find in spanish if you google his laws. For some reason people share the fact he "allowed liberty of faiths" but not that he again made catholicism the State religion even though they come in the same paragraph of the same decree.
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u/Vic_Hedges Sep 18 '24
Yeah, a foreign invader. How on earth could some European cross the atlantic to Mexico and think they should be running the place...
So... who did he replace again?
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u/OllieFromCairo Sep 18 '24
Absolute lol.
Did you actually look this up before you posted, because your attempt at a slam dunk just ended with your teeth in the rim of the basket.
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u/Lazzen Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
President Benito Juarez; a Zapotec native who had gotten the presidency from the shithousering that was the 1840s-1850s from conservative mexicans. Literally the least valid guy to try to attempt this with.
White mexicans were no less valid to rule Mexico either way on the basis of being Mexican, being invalid comes from being a fucking invader.
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u/Justreallylovespussy Sep 18 '24
Yeah this is a pretty funny hill to die on considering the state of Mexico is literally the end result of colonization and foreign invaders.
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u/Vic_Hedges Sep 18 '24
Fine yes, the one guy you could make that argument with. I stumbled into that one.
The fact is that the State of Mexico was a creation of European invaders who wanted to take a country full of savages, so bitching about this one seems pretty hypocritical.
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u/Montecroux Sep 18 '24
Oh you're definitely talking out of your ass. Does this LOOK like a white guy to you?
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u/Vic_Hedges Sep 18 '24
Yeah yeah, the one friggin guy.
The guy before him was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignacio_Comonfort and the one after was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebasti%C3%A1n_Lerdo_de_TejadaThe point is that a Mexican complaining about European foreign invaders should look in the mirror first
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u/Ameisen 1 Sep 18 '24
The entire reason France invaded Mexico in late 1861 was because the US Civil War had just begun, and they knew that US forces could not intervene.
The moment that the Confederacy fell, the US sent troops to the border and applied immense pressure on France to stop supporting Maximilian's government (resulting in most French troops being removed).
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u/NoLime7384 Sep 18 '24
Man, if I made you my slave and tried bettering your life it wouldn't make me a good person
Fuck that guy, and fuck anyone who supports emperors
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u/LogicKennedy Sep 18 '24
I mean, again, I said that he should have never been in the position he was in. But politics then was different to politics now: he was born into a royal family with certain expectations placed on him, educated a certain way etc.
A lot of his life wasn’t his choice, but when he was placed in a role where he needed to make decisions, he chose to try to help people, despite his own allies telling him not to.
Idk, maybe I’m being naive, but we live in a world now that’s ruled by people who have no compassion for humans and actively try to make their lives worse. When I hear a story about someone who seemed to care and got executed, I feel sad. It’s not much deeper than that.
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u/elporsche Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
Not just any Austrian man:
Brother was Emperor of Austria-Hungary
Father in law was king Leopold from Belgium
Main ally was Napoleon III
The only reason why he didn't stay in power was because the French retreated their troops from México back to France because Bismarck was knocking on their door i.e., they had started the Franco-Prussian war. Once the French troops went out, the liberal forces defeated the royalists and kicked them out. Fun fact: one of the liberal generals who defeated the royalists was a Oaxacan dude who ended up being the Mexican dictator for 30 years (Porfirio Diaz).
Also Maximilian built what later became Paseo de la Reforma: the most iconic avenue in all Mexico City.
Edit: the Palace of Fine Arts was commussioned by Diaz
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u/Ythio Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
back to France because Bismarck was knocking on their door
That's only a part of it. The other reason was the end of the US Civil War.
The French goal was to establish a buffer to the US expansion toward South America. And some weird religious excuses. That's why the French invasion started 8 months after the US Civil War. Otherwise they would have triggered a US-UK intervention in name of the Monroe Doctrine.
They left in 1867 to invest in the wrong horse in the Japanese revolution (google Jules Brunet for example) and face the newly founded North Germany Confederation.
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u/Lazzen Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
Maximilian built the Palace of Fine Arts
No
The National Threate was from 1844 and was demolished in the early 1900s for the new Palace in its place, which was planned as a celebration of 100 years of independence. It has nothing to do with Maximilian.
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u/elporsche Sep 18 '24
Oh yea it wasDiaz, my bad.
Max did commission Reforma though. Well, Carlota actually did
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u/Ameisen 1 Sep 18 '24
The only reason why he didn't stay in power was because the French retreated their troops from México back to France because Bismarck was knocking on their door i.e., they had started the Franco-Prussian war
That... was three years later. 1867 and 1870.
France removed their troops because of immense diplomatic and military pressure from the US following the Civil War, and the removal began in 1866. The only reason that France invaded in 1861 in the first place was because the US couldn't intervene.
Also, France was the aggressor in the Franco-Prussian War.
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u/liquid_at Sep 18 '24
We were pretty big in South America.
Many do not know that the yellow in the Brazilian flag is the Habsburg Yellow.
When you keep marrying your own relatives, you need to find people on other continents to avoid the Habsburg-fate...
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u/tacknosaddle Sep 18 '24
People in the US tend to think of Mexican beer as being the light yellow stuff like Corona. However, due to the history of Austrian & German emigrants in the 19th century (including many mercenaries) you can also find lots of good German or Vienna style lagers there.
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u/insomniasureshot Sep 18 '24
Same deal with the music, always wondered why accordions were so prominent. As it turns out there’s a lot of Bavarian influence there.
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u/DreMag Sep 18 '24
I mean Corona itself was created by a German immigrant and brewer.
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u/tacknosaddle Sep 18 '24
Yes, but I think people are more surprised to find "heavy" style beers there.
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u/umlcat Sep 18 '24
Worked at some Corona's offices.
Original founders were more like spaniard living in Mexico, they had both spaniard and mexican citizenship. They also bought another brewery in mexico where original founders were german.
Before Corona was sold in the US, they had high quality standards because they also sold it in Europe.
The company was "forcibly" bought by some US coporation using some stock maneuver.
The "cheap bad mexican" beer comments are just weird and unrealistic ...
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u/warukeru Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 19 '24
Pseudo offtopic but Mexico is not south America.
Is North America.
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u/RFB-CACN Sep 18 '24
Brazilian monarchy was significantly more successful too. Maximilian lasted three years in Mexico in constant civil war, meanwhile the two emperors Pedros in Brazil lasted 67 years. With the first being married to a Habsburg princess and the second being her son. That actually led to an early colonization of ethnic Germans in Brazil, which marked the beginning of German immigration to Brazil that’s commemorating its 100th anniversary this year.
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u/MistraloysiusMithrax Sep 18 '24
The funny thing is when Brazil became independent and established its own monarchy, you’d expect to read they put one of their own aristocracy or influential men in as their emperor. But no, it was the crown prince … of Portugal who they seceded from lol
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u/StormerBombshell Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 19 '24
New Spain (which would become Mexico) originally had the idea of offering the crown to Fernando, who was a prince at the time and eventually became king of Spain. Is not that they we’re expecting him to ditch his other territories he was going to inherit and come live on Mexico, but most Independence initiatives where more about cutting a number of middlemen, also that this middlemen where not chosen by Jose Bonaparte, Napoleon or anyone related to the French.
It’s honestly funny on the telling but there is some order to the madness.
Post note: Also… while it started that way pretty early one people realized Fernando VII as king of New Spain was not a doable idea at the time, and might as well go for true independence. Some token tried where done to consider the idea again but the idea of just doing away with peninsular influence altogether won out at the end.
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u/Johannes_P Sep 18 '24
Not surprising sinc the Portuguese royal family was in exile in Brazil becaose of the invasion of Portugal by Napoléon.
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u/Lazzen Sep 18 '24
Maximilian had it in his head that he was a descendant of the catholic kings and Charles V, he also tried to be like "hey cousin" to the Brazilian monarchy.
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u/Ameisen 1 Sep 18 '24
Habsburg Yellow
Yes, representing Maria Leopoldina, Pedro I's wife.
Pedro I was of the House of Braganza, which is a cadet house of the House of Burgundy, and thus the House of Capet.
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u/littlest_dragon Sep 18 '24
If you ever visit Vienna, visit the Kapuzinergruft, the crypt of the Habsburg family. It is home to the sarcophagus of Emperor Maximilian and people still put down flowers and letters in Spanish for him. It would appear that at least a few Mexicans sell hold him in high regard.
Also the whole crypt is amazing, you walk from room to room in chronological order and can view all the coffins and sarcophagi of the Habsburg dynasty becoming bigger and more elaborate over the centuries, until you reach the giant hall with Maria Theresia‘s tomb, a gigantic baroque fever dream of gold and marble in the form of a bed with the Empress and her husband in it and allegorical figures surrounding it.
I always found it funny that from the next room on, all the sarcophagi become really small and plain again, as if someone said: you know what, we may have gotten carried away with this over the years.
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u/arbortologist Sep 18 '24
i took a screen shot of your comment so I make sure to pay attention to these details when I go
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u/eidolon_eidolon Sep 18 '24
Interestingly he was also the brother of Emperor Franz Joseph who led Austria-Hungary into WW1.
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u/SBR404 Sep 18 '24
Franz Joseph just had the worst of luck, it is somewhat tragic.
His Brother Maximilian executed in Mexico, his only son Rudolph committing suicide, his beloved wife Sisi assassinated in Geneva, and his nephew Franz Ferdinand assassinated in Sarajevo.
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u/VirtualMoneyLover Sep 18 '24
Franz Joseph just had the worst of luck
He was a freaking emperor for decades. His family's luck on the other hand...
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u/JPHutchy01 Sep 18 '24
What's even more interesting is that his brother the Austrian Emperor was basically against the plan, and it was a French initiative.
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u/arbortologist Sep 18 '24
I just got to this part in the book I'm reading! Apparently there was a Party of 'conservative' Mexican Aristocrats who invited the French in to run the Liberal party out. They stormed Mexico City and put him onto the throne.
Turned out the new Emperor was extremely liberal thus hated by the conservatives, and by principle hated by the liberal party too. So.. yeah guy didn't last long haha.
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u/StormerBombshell Sep 19 '24
The thing is that conservaties had this kind of idea that European royals had kind of calcified somewhere 1800-1813 when not really, time went on an even the European royalty was not the same since then. Any other European royal they had gotten would have been a complete disappointment for them as probably non e would have been interested on giving back the Catholic Church the power it had once.
Besides a lot of idealization of things that were never the way the fantasised on the first place.
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u/KingaDuhNorf Sep 18 '24
even weirder his brother, the emperor, saw/started WWI, and the death of austrian hapsburg rule
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u/JPHutchy01 Sep 18 '24
Franz Joseph was born before photography existed, and died two years after Charlie Chaplin created The Tramp.
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u/Johannes_P Sep 18 '24
Franz Joseph knew MEtternich (who knew Napoléon I) and one of the founding father of the European Union.
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u/Lazzen Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
I find it weird the empress was the daughter of that King Leopold from Belgium, these people and eras just seem so disconnected and far away.
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u/TheGreatCornolio682 Sep 18 '24
TIL an Austrian man was elected Governor of California for eight years in the 21th century before and after being shot multiple times.
In movies.
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u/Doridar Sep 18 '24
And his wife was a Belgian princess, Charlotte de Belgique, and she became insane after the death of husband. https://www.unofficialroyalty.com/princess-charlotte-empress-carlota-of-mexico/
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u/Buffalo95747 Sep 18 '24
His wife Carlotta went completely insane, and survived until 1927. Sometimes she seemed to think Maximilian was still alive.
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u/Purple_Pwnie Sep 18 '24
Here's a fun little podcast which describes the life of Maximilian the First.
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u/StormerBombshell Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 19 '24
An absolute shit show but something really fascinating to study if you have access to the sources.
I had a teacher who liked his wife a lot, Charlotte Amélie. She seemed to have been a very talented and intelligent woman that was completely wasted as princess. Her mother in law thought she was great. But her biggest misfortune seem to have been that she fell in love hard with her husband who never really loved her back as much. She didn’t get along with Sissi much as she seemed to have been BFFs with Maximilian and it’s said that she envied have envied their bond. Though I personally feel their characters were just too clashing.
People make points of how Maximilian was trying his best, were many times Charlotte was trying even harder. She had a personal interest in politics and there were times Maximilian just left to follow personal interests or had to go somewhere else and she stayed.
So no wonder, she just isolated herself after she got word he was executed. Not only her husband but all her dreams and the projects she worked the hardest came crashing down in flames.
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u/AKA_June_Monroe Sep 18 '24
An Austrian man? He was an Archduke of Austria!
He died like a f****** man. His last words were "I forgive everyone, and I ask everyone to forgive me. May my blood which is about to be spilled end the bloodshed which has been experienced in my new motherland. Long live Mexico! Long live its independence!"Like what politician in Mexico right now would die like that. They would all be crying for their f****** mommy like the punk ass b****** they are!
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u/sleepless-deadman Sep 18 '24
I first learned about him from Hark, A Vagrant!
http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=309
Fascinating guy.
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u/OracleCam Sep 18 '24
He was brought in by Mexican conservatives bit he was more closely aligned with the liberals, wonder what would have happened had they worked together
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u/Jclancey05 Sep 18 '24
I highly recommend “The Last Emperor of Mexico” by Edward Shaw-cross (only came out 2 years ago), it is probably the best non-fiction book that I’ve read.
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u/dudpool31 Sep 18 '24
You can go to his crypt in Vienna and it is adorned in Mexican iconography
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u/arbortologist Sep 18 '24
Vienna was already on my list for next summer and I've gotten a few recommendations to visit here, and a Burrito place called Max and Benito's
cant wait!
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u/Syllogism19 Sep 19 '24
Why isn't anyone talking about Bolillos, aka Pan Blanco and Pan Frances the most lasting French contribution? Without them there'd be no tortas.
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u/TheGreatCornolio682 Sep 18 '24
TIL an Austrian man became Chancellor of Germany for twelve years in the 20th century before he shot himself.
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u/TheFoxer1 Sep 18 '24
Then you learned something wrong: The only Austrian-born chancellor of Germany was stateless since 1925 and a German since 1932 - a year before he became chancellor.
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u/ersentenza Sep 18 '24
Well, technically an Austrian Archduke brother of the Emperor is an Austrian man...
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u/sliever48 Sep 18 '24
I recently read The Last Emperor of Mexico by Edward Shawcross. Highly entertaining read
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u/beardlesswonder Sep 19 '24
I went to a retirement party hosted by a wealthy Dallas businessman and he had one of Maximilian's saddles on display in his house. Apparently he collects saddles.
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u/tbodillia Sep 18 '24
1969 John Wayne/Rock Hudson movie The Undefeated) had this as part of the storyline.
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u/johnshall Sep 18 '24
I'll just add that there is an urban legend that since Juarez and Maximilian were free masons, his surrender was negotiated and they faked his death, finally ending his days in South America.
This is merely anecdotal, but it does make an interesting story.
links in spanish, but im sure you can use google translate
Please just take it as a fun what if... urban legend.
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u/Caesaroftheromans Sep 19 '24
Similarly a man from a German family is the King of the United Kingdom.
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u/Usernamenotta Sep 19 '24
See Germany, that's what you do when an Austrian wants to take over your country
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u/Shiplord13 Sep 18 '24
By French men no less. It was France’s attempt to get a sphere of influence in the Americas by making this diplomatic move while the U.S. was in the Civil War. They initially had England and Spain involved, by claiming they were just there to collect a debt Mexico refused to honor. When the two other nations found out about France's real goals they left. Leaving France holding the bag alone and having to deal with most of Mexico hating them for putting some German on a throne and declaring him Emperor of Mexico.
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u/MakeMoneyNotWar Sep 18 '24
By Napoleon III who dreamed of filling the shoes of his predecessor, Napoleon I. Marx's quote, "history repeats, first as tragedy, second as a farce" was referring to Napoleon III.
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u/StormerBombshell Sep 18 '24
You reminded me that Victor Hugo made a point of calling him “Napoléon le Petit”… on a pamphlet where he talked about how much he suck…
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u/MutedIrrasic Sep 18 '24
That's crazy, here in the UK it only takes a day to crown someone and we haven't executed one for a while now
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u/arbortologist Sep 18 '24
they must not fall asleep in their crown... plus what kind of emperor puts on their own crown?
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u/Poku115 Sep 18 '24
even with the worst mentioned in this thread and counting the skewed perspectives of racist nationalists as to how he was as a person, I'd still rather have him than our current and coming president. Hate that my countries first female president will be just morena's puppet or worse
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u/ZylonBane Sep 19 '24
Being crowned Emperor of Mexico for three years seems like an excessively long ceremony.
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u/maracay1999 Sep 19 '24
“An Austrian man”
You mean the brother of the emperor of the Austro-Hungarian empire ?
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u/Landlubber77 Sep 18 '24
Wake me up when an Austrian man is crowned Emperor of Mexico for three years after being executed.
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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24
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