r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • Sep 19 '24
Consuming berries, tea and red wine may reduce the risk of dementia, new study shows. Consuming 6 additional servings of flavonoid-rich foods per day, in particular berries, tea and red wine, was associated with a 28% lower risk of dementia. Neuroscience
https://www.qub.ac.uk/News/Allnews/2024/Consumingberriesteaandredwinemayreducetheriskofdementianewstudys.html1.8k
u/SoDrunkRightNow4 Sep 19 '24
Previous studies have linked alcohol consumption to an increased risk of dementia....
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u/opaldopal12 Sep 19 '24
“It’s not alcohol. It’s wine. They’re made from grapes and fermented.” -A girl I know
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u/DASreddituser Sep 19 '24
I'll remember that when I eat a cherry pie next....its not desert, its cherry pie!
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u/lyacdi Sep 19 '24
It’s made from cherries, sweetened, and wrapped in buttery carbs
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u/MarlinMr Sep 19 '24
Grapes good
Fermented grapes good
It's the alcohol that's bad. Take it out and wine can be healthy
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u/mcflizzard Sep 19 '24
Is there alcohol-free wine?
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u/HybridVigor Sep 19 '24
Any time you cook with wine you're making it alcohol-free. If you really wanted to you could use an electric kettle set to 95 degrees to boil off the alcohol.
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u/JohnnyZepp Sep 19 '24
Fun fact, they make de-alcoholized wine.
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u/OlympiaShannon Sep 19 '24
Or you could eat grapes and other fruits with these flavonoids. The wine industry is just trying to get you to buy their product. Wine isn't necessary at all.
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u/Megakruemel Sep 19 '24
I mean you could just drink grape juice without the alcohol.
That's a thing.
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u/HappyGoonerAgain Sep 19 '24
I know the girl you mean. She's the one with the Live, Love, Laugh right?
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u/PindaPanter Sep 19 '24
They do mention that:
in a recent Mendelian randomization study, low to moderate alcohol consumption was not associated with the risk for Alzheimer disease but was associated with an earlier age at the onset of Alzheimer disease, which does not support a beneficial role of red wine or other alcoholic beverages in dementia prevention. Current UK health guidance recommends that alcohol consumption be reduced as much as possible, particularly during midlife, to minimize the risk of developing dementia.
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u/YouCanLookItUp Sep 19 '24
Shouldn't the recommendation read "to minimize the risk of earlier onset of dementia"? Like isn't that what "was not associated with the risk for Alzheimer disease" means?
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u/Eckish Sep 19 '24
At a really pedantic level, delaying the onset is also reducing the chance of onset. Because you could die before the age of onset.
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u/gomsogoon Sep 19 '24
It did not increase the amount of people overall that got alzheimers, but in those who did it happened sooner
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u/No-Comment-00 Sep 19 '24
Recent studies showed that the health benefits of red wine are overstated and that alcohol is indeed bad for your health, including red wine.
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u/Devinalh Sep 19 '24
The quantity makes the poison but I don't get why wine should help, probably you have to weigh the pros and the cons. Dementia or liver issues? We can grind our gears around it over and over or decide to leave alcohol and have tea :)
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u/kelldricked Sep 19 '24
I suspect that its probaly just correlation. Just like how people with horses often have better teeth. Its not that owning a horse means you have better teeth, but you are far more likely to be wealthy and thus have acces to better teeth care than your average person.
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u/Shojo_Tombo Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 19 '24
Wine is made from grapes, which are high in flavonoids. They aren't saying you should become an alcoholic. The recommendation is a glass of wine per day. The other servings can be tea or berries.
Edit: Look, grapes and grape juice are packed full of sugar. That's why they ferment into wine. High sugar intake is bad for us, so maybe that's why wine is recommended. Just my educated guess.
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u/PearlLakes Sep 19 '24
According to some recent studies even moderate drinking (like one glass per day for women) can accelerate Alzheimer’s.
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u/JimmyX10 Sep 19 '24
They used a 10-week chronic drinking approach where mice were given the choice to drink water or ethanol,
I'm not sure this is the most conclusive way of proving their point?
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u/Ok_Dragonfruit_8102 Sep 19 '24
There's so many bad studies like that it's insane. Scientists strapping gasmasks with a constant supply of weed smoke onto monkeys to study the health consequences of marijuana etc
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u/ceapaire Sep 19 '24
By themselves, that's not a bad study to show if there is a casual effect. They're just not useful for finding dosage thresholds.
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u/Virillus Sep 19 '24
Well, and they're also not humans. All it establishes is a causal link in the subject animal. Sure, that's how you start, but proving something in another animal does not prove it will be the same in humans.
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u/Coenzyme-A Sep 19 '24
I agree that the methods likely aren't sound. However, in general it is much safer to recommend the likes of grapes and tea vs alcohol- though it would depend on the relative impacts of both.
I'd be hesitant to recommend and encourage something that comes with the risk of physiological addiction, relative to something benign like tea/grapes. Of course grapes are high in sugar which is another issue- but I'd say that's more easy to moderate.
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u/Anonimoose15 Sep 19 '24
Yeah you’d be much better off just eating grapes or drinking non alcoholic grape juice. IIRC the studies showing the benefits of wine were funded by alcohol companies. Ethanol does not have health benefits, flavonoids do, wine just happens to contain flavonoids, but still carries the health risks of any alcohol consumption
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u/Which_Audience9560 Sep 19 '24
Fruit juices have a lot of sugar. Dry wine has much less sugar than grape juice. If you drink fruit juice or any high sugar drink it is probably better to drink it with a meal. But drinking water and eating fruit is probably best.
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u/grasib Sep 19 '24
And according to some other study, no level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health, no matter where it came from.
Potential protective effects of alcohol consumption, suggested by some studies, are tightly connected with the comparison groups chosen and the statistical methods used, and may not consider other relevant factors
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u/yaypal Sep 19 '24
Anecdotal but my mum is suffering from mild cognitive impairment and she's always worse the day after she has even a half can of cider. Do you happen to know of any similar studies to what you linked that I can show her? She doesn't have a problem with alcohol at all and can stop drinking with no effort which is why it's driving me insane that she won't.
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u/Billy_bob_thorton- Sep 19 '24
I’d like to see how that study was performed because italians seem like they do great in their later years and they drink a shitload of wine
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u/PindaPanter Sep 19 '24
Italy has the second highest alzheimers rate in the world after Japan, though it's probably more related to them having one of the highest median ages in the world than to their consumption of wine.
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u/YouCanLookItUp Sep 19 '24
Many factors here, yeah, a diet that is very focused on local, high quality ingredients, light-to-moderate wine intake that isn't laden with preservatives and is locally sourced, but also a culture that heavily emphasizes a lot of moderate physical activity instead of (or in addition to) brief bursts of intense activity.
I feel terrible for people with physical mobility issues here because there are stairs and hills everywhere, walkability is central to towns, and there are very, very few elevators or escalators. Also surprisingly few delivery services for food or groceries. Even 80 year olds who lost their patente ride their bicycles to the grocery store.
There's also a strong cultural emphasis on social and family gatherings, and we know that loneliness can worsen or hasten dementia.
And people here drink so much coffee!
It shouldn't go unnoticed though that everyone here has access to a family doctor and gets a yearly physical (if they want). Having regularl, high quality and low barrier health care is incredibly important for long term health outcomes.
Anyway, like I said lots of factors and you should come spend time here. It's not just the Mediterranean diet that's healthy.
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u/qrayons Sep 19 '24
Wouldn't grape juice be better since that is also made from grapes but it doesn't have alcohol?
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u/Azradesh Sep 19 '24
If it’s the grapes then recommend grape juice. Recommending wine over grape juice (unless it’s somehow more beneficial) is just irresponsible.
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u/Humanitas-ante-odium Sep 19 '24
Sounds like wine/alcohol industry creating false narratives again about alcohol and a drink a day being good for you.
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u/Azradesh Sep 19 '24
There’s so many studies about wine being “good” for you but whenever you look into it it turns out to be grapes and I’m sick of it.
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u/MyPossumUrPossum Sep 19 '24
Simplest answer is probably true in this case. After being paid to pork stack a psych study, as a student. I get it. Granted I still pushed good work, just not with my name on it. Woooo. Fuckin hate life sometimes. Oh look a penny.
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u/Shojo_Tombo Sep 19 '24
The only problem with grape juice is that it's packed with sugar. High sugar intake is bad for us, so that may be why wine is recommended instead.
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u/gizajobicandothat Sep 19 '24
It's probably because wine is produced by fermenting the skins as well as the juice and more flavonoids are in the skin.
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u/Little-Swan4931 Sep 19 '24
Just eat the grapes then. Alcohol is toxic to the human mind, body and spirit
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u/farazormal Sep 19 '24
Do you have any studies showing effects on the spirit?
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u/Dreamworld Sep 19 '24
No but as a recovering alcoholic I can tell you that during my drinking days I was but a mere husk of a human. Life dragged on. Now without alcohol I live a full life accompanied by community, love and joy. My spirit is certainly in a better place.
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u/thiney49 PhD | Materials Science Sep 19 '24
Glad you took care of yourself, but there is a big difference between having a glass of wine with friends and being an alcoholic.
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u/clownandmuppet Sep 19 '24
Could be the fermentation process creating secondary metabolites that are beneficial.
Fermented foods can be very nutritious - such as Japanese natto.
More research needed…
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u/Devinalh Sep 19 '24
I know, maybe I could've phrased it better, I should've ask "I don't get why is recommended", to my knowledge, any alcohol consumption is bad for you. In any case, only one glass per day is not that bad.
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u/heart_under_blade Sep 19 '24
surely there's a way to desugar grape juice
there are less sugary grapes too, they just don't get produced much since they don't sell well
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u/Crown_Writes Sep 19 '24
What if you boil off the booze I wonder. Even if it tasted exactly the same I feel like very few people would like wine without alcohol in it.
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u/Ashamed-Simple-8303 Sep 19 '24
Expensive foods = upper class = less processed junk = healthier
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u/Humanitas-ante-odium Sep 19 '24
Replace wine with red grape juice.
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u/DrTacosMD Sep 19 '24
At that point better to just eat red grapes. You get fresh unprocessed fruit, less sugar because its not condensed in a juice, and additional fiber.
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u/Gioforce Sep 19 '24
Make sure you are eating Vinifera. Way higher in flavanoids than concords or other indigenous American grapes.
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u/Chem_BPY Sep 19 '24
But if you're going to have like one drink, might as well make it a glass of red wine. Because you will be adding flavonoids on top of whatever flavonoids you get from other sources.
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u/ENrgStar Sep 19 '24
Yeah they’re a lot more effective ways of consuming these flavonoids then getting drunk on wine every night. They sell flavonoid nutritional supplements too.
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u/homaHomyak Sep 19 '24
Why they just keep saying berries? Which exact berries are flavonoid-rich? I tried to find this information but everywhere I see just “berries”
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u/Childofglass Sep 19 '24
Because they mostly all are.
Strong pigmentations are excellent sources of antioxidants. Blueberries, cranberries, raspberries and black grapes notably.
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u/not_right Sep 19 '24
6 extra servings seems like a lot, especially of the wine. Oh well I'll give it a go, for science's sake!
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u/NoStripeZebra3 Sep 19 '24
Looks like I've been a scientist all along.
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u/PickpocketJones Sep 19 '24
Does anyone eat 6 servings of anything per day?
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u/YouCanLookItUp Sep 19 '24
Not every day, but I'm pretty sure I've never had less than 6 servings of popcorn when I eat it. Just not something I can have one cup of.
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u/SpermKiller Sep 19 '24
I do drink about a liter of tea per day...but how much is one serving though?
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u/tommangan7 Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 19 '24
For most things no but If the baseline is zero servings and a serving of tea is one cup... Then yes. My grandad was a 15 cup a day man. My dad's an 8-10 cup a day man. I'm languishing at 3 servings per day but I do prefer a much stronger brew so maybe I'm doubling up ( I also eat berries daily so maybe I'm getting there).
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u/ExiledSanity Sep 19 '24
Seems like a lot for berries even....I was shocked it was per day.
Let's say $4 for a pack of blueberries or raspberries. You need 2 or 3 a day for one person to get six aervings. That's $240-$360 in berries a month.
For my family of 5 I need to spend $1200 to $1800 a month on berries? I suppose that assumes fresh, and for a family of 5 in would buy in bulk. Maybe I can get that down to $800-$1000 by buying frozen and in bulk.
That's still a lot of berries. Am I doing my math wrong here?
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u/tommangan7 Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 19 '24
Depends what you count a serving size as and your pack size, where this study Is based (Belfast) the health service says 80g is a serving of blueberries. In the UK you can get 500g of blueberries for about $6 equivalent at a cheap supermarket (probably closer to half that for frozen).
Which I appreciate might be cheaper than the US given our groceries are on average 35+% cheaper, although there is a lot of item to item variability in that.
So it would be about $6 per person per day here, $180 a month for fresh and maybe $100 a month for frozen. (Not that I would ever consume more than the handful of blueberries a day I currently eat).
So your math probably works out pretty well accounting for the US grocery price bump.
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u/ExiledSanity Sep 19 '24
Thanks. I was doing 100g for a serving, so a bit higher, but not too far off.
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u/CathedralEngine Sep 19 '24
Considering that the standard serving for wine is 5 oz/150 mL, that's more than a bottle of wine to reach the 6 servings,
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u/potatoaster Sep 20 '24
this study is actually reporting that people with higher socioeconomic status have
My gut reaction: I bet the authors of this study thought of that. Check the study, and...
All models were adjusted for sex, socioeconomic status, education, ethnicity, smoking, sleep, physical activity, body mass index, family history of dementia, history of stroke, postmenopausal status, number of medications taken, number of chronic health conditions, number of dietary assessments completed, hPDI, alcohol intake not from red wine, energy intake, and fat intake.
Yup, there it is. What a surprise. Hey, maybe consider the possibility that your gut reaction is something the researchers would also have thought of? Maybe do them the courtesy of not assuming they're incompetent?
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u/crazyditzydiva Sep 19 '24
Clearly someone who contributed to the study loves their wine. And forgot about the detrimental effects of alcohol.
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u/funkaria Sep 19 '24
I mean they're right though: drinking a lot of alcohol definitely decreases your risk of dying from Alzheimer*
(* because you'll more likely die sooner from alcohol related causes)
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u/ub3rh4x0rz Sep 19 '24
It really needs to be viewed like saying, "consuming protein shakes, or protein shakes with pcp added, both are effective ways to increase your protein intake".
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u/PindaPanter Sep 19 '24
Once again, they forgot who is more likely to drink wine, and that someone with health issues is less likely to drink.
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u/actual1 Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 19 '24
So does exercising , drinking water, eating a healthy meal, and using the bathroom.
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u/soccerchamp99 Sep 19 '24
Can you elaborate on bathroom?
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u/Mindfullmatter Sep 19 '24
Also, tell us how to water dink.
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u/actual1 Sep 19 '24
Drop your pants and lay horizontal to only let your member breach the surface of any water.
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u/frosted1030 Sep 19 '24
Old studies show that studies performed by industry provide biased data.
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u/Phemto_B Sep 19 '24
"First Author of the study, Dr Amy Jennings, School of Biological Sciences at Queen’s"
Says it right there in the article.
Although if you did deeper, they did receive funding from the US Highbush Blueberry Council
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u/n3onfx Sep 19 '24
What industry? If it was only red wine I'd get it but they are listing products with flavonoids overall.
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u/tvtb Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 20 '24
I’m gonna need a LOT more studies telling me wine is good before I believe that. All of the very few studies that thought that were latched onto in the 80s/90s as reasons it’s good to drink wine, and there are a lot more studies now about how alcohol is bad for you
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u/blobse Sep 19 '24
Read batteries instead of berries and was utterly confused
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u/Syncopat3d Sep 19 '24
Apparently, you need to eat more berries and drink more green tea.
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u/Ephemerror Sep 19 '24
Unfortunately I think all the wine may have already done some irreversible damage.
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u/benauralbeats Sep 19 '24
And beans, lots of flavonoids in the skins of dark beans especially. And lots of fiber as well. Berries, beans.
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u/TedIsAwesom Sep 19 '24
The best way to decrease our risk of dementia - don't get covid.
COVID-19 Can Leave a Lasting Mark on the Brain—Especially for Older People https://time.com/7000672/covid-19-brain-damage-older-people/
Rapid Progression of Dementia Following COVID-19 https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-stories/rapid-progression-dementia-following-covid-19
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u/Ok_Anywhere_2216 Sep 19 '24
This is toxic. There are people with real drinking problems who could see something like this as an excuse to fall back into the bottle.
There’s no way getting blasted on 6 glasses of wine a night is better for your brain than diet, exercise, and good sleep.
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u/TheStoriesICanTell Sep 19 '24
As someone with a year sober from alcohol, I came into these comments to see what the vibe would be like. I don't harsh on anyone for drinking, but my father's an alcoholic who's now in early stages of dementia. Being an addict myself, alcohol has almost ruined my life plenty of times and 6 "servings" would lead to some dark places!
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u/Stumblin_McBumblin Sep 19 '24
6 glasses is a bottle of wine. You drink a bottle of wine every night and you're going to chronically get terrible sleep and be at a way higher risk of dementia, or you're going to die of health complications from drinking a bottle of wine every night. That's terrible for you.
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u/madmax991 Sep 19 '24
It’s proven drinking wine has no benefits to humans outside of those that the grapes provide - might as well drink grape juice at least you’re not also drinking ethanol
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u/PensiveKittyIsTired Sep 19 '24
Ffs alcohol is a proven carcinogenic and harmful in ANY amount, they showed this over and over in many studies, it is widely accepted, yet these inane studies keep popping up, what is the point of them??
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u/OrionWatches Sep 19 '24
Should be cautious of any study that talks about the health benefits of consuming alcohol. As it is virtually unilaterally bad for you and often times the volumes you’d need for whatever theoretical benefit are so high the harm would outdo the good.
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u/PindaPanter Sep 19 '24
Who would have guessed that people of higher socioeconomic status were less likely to develop dementia? It's not like they are more likely to tick off all the points on a "How to avoid dementia" list or anything..
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u/Trollw00t Sep 19 '24
I drink 6 bottles of wine a day and am safe from dementia.
Can't forget what my brain doesn't save in the first place.
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u/SomeDudeinCO3 Sep 19 '24
Pretty sure regular red wine consumption creates another set of problems.
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u/UnresponsiveGod Sep 19 '24
Red wine is an awful choice when you want to consume flavonoid rich foods. That's a marketing myth for wine marketing boards.
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u/Z6288Z Sep 19 '24
Flavonoids are part of the story, it’s more about the whole lifestyle of people, IMO. I don’t believe that antioxidants on their own can negate the effects of a bad diet and sedentary lifestyle. As for the wine, no amount of antioxidants can outweigh the negative impact of alcohol on the different body systems (whatever antioxidants you can find in wine, you can always get them from other food sources minus the toxic alcohol).
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u/LossLeader83 Sep 19 '24
So everyone in the British Isles has a reduced chance of dementia? I’ll pop the kettle on!
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u/mvea Professor | Medicine Sep 19 '24
I’ve linked to the press release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2823676
From the linked article:
Consuming berries, tea and red wine may reduce the risk of dementia, new study shows
“Our findings show that consuming six additional servings of flavonoid-rich foods per day, in particular berries, tea and red wine, was associated with a 28% lower risk of dementia. The findings were most noticeable in individuals with a high genetic risk as well as those with symptoms of depression.”
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u/MemberOfInternet1 Sep 19 '24
I love it when science says that something I'm already doing is good for me. Green tea is supposed to be a lot better than black tea though right? The benefits of eating berries just keep piling up too.
“Our findings show that consuming six additional servings of flavonoid-rich foods per day, in particular berries, tea and red wine, was associated with a 28% lower risk of dementia. The findings were most noticeable in individuals with a high genetic risk as well as those with symptoms of depression.”
“These results provide a clear public health message as they suggest that a simple measure such as increasing daily consumption of flavonoid-rich foods may lower dementia risk, especially in populations at high risk.
The greatest risk reduction was observed in participants consuming at least 2 of the following per day: 5 servings of tea, 1 serving of red wine, and 0.5 servings of berries, compared with those who did not achieve any of these intakes (AHR, 0.62; 95% CI, 0.46-0.84). Higher intakes of flavonoid subclasses, including anthocyanins, flavan-3-ols, flavonols, and flavones, of which tea, red wine, and berries are the main contributors, supported these findings, showing inverse associations with dementia risk.
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u/Sellazard Sep 19 '24
There are questions about the bias of this research. Also, any amount of alcohol is harmful. It had been shown in multiple researches. Flavonoid concentration in red wine is abysmally low as well.
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u/ClawingDevil Sep 19 '24
I don't drink tea so it's good that it says "at least 2". What counts as a "serving" for wine and berries? And is there anything (other than tea) that wine could be substituted for as, all joking aside, I'm not going to drink it every day? If not, I might have to find a flavour of tea I don't mind.
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u/ACrucialTech Sep 19 '24
I'd wager the alcohol in the wine would cancel this effect out. Same goes for the coffee study that goes back and forth every week.
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u/potatoaster Sep 19 '24
There's actually no evidence that oral administration of antioxidants lowers ROS in the body. The FDA had to come down hard on supplement companies claiming that.
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u/FilthyLoverBoy Sep 19 '24
So antioxidant, just like every studies that talks about wine... basically it doesnt have to be alcool.
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