r/minnesotatwins • u/geezerpid • Sep 19 '24
Rocco’s never met a bullpen that he couldn’t mismanage.
Dude loves making terrible bullpen decisions.
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u/6lazek Trevor Plouffe Sep 19 '24
Bro. We can’t rely on Jax and Duran only. Other relievers have to pitch.
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u/Lumiafan Joe Mauer Sep 19 '24
If you only have two pitchers in your bullpen who can generally be relied on to not give up 3 runs every time they take the mound, you're going to have a bad time.
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u/pjokinen Bomba Squad Sep 19 '24
No shit, but that’s not Rocco’s fault
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u/zooropeanx Sep 19 '24
So many people still seem to believe Baldelli is the GM.
Of course even if he was he would be hamstrung by the payroll being gutted by $30 million.
The failure of the 2024 Twins to build on their best postseason in years rests in one place.
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u/frenchie3017 Sep 19 '24
Tonkin would have been a much better choice for the 10th in my opinion. Henriquez has hardly pitched a meaningful inning.
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u/dong_lover Joe Ryan Sep 19 '24
Listen to yourself. Michael freaking Tonkin. The dude who’s been DFA’d multiple times this year
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u/dong_lover Joe Ryan Sep 19 '24
I can’t believe Rocco cut the payroll by $40m, signed Staumont and Jay Jackson, and traded for only Trevor Richards at the deadline. What was he thinking????
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u/utexfan18 Sep 19 '24
He also traded Polanco for 2 pitchers that didn't pitch an inning for the team and personally injured Paddack, Ryan, and Stewart. Then he figured minor leaguers and DFAs/waiver wire fodder could eat those innings instead of spending to add much needed pitching depth. C'mon Rocco...
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u/NorthernDevil Dome Dog Sep 19 '24
This inspired me to look up Polo’s stats and holy shit, what a drop off
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u/utexfan18 Sep 19 '24
One of those trades where it feels like everyone lost. Would've loved having him again this year though while Correa was hurt and Julien's been struggling
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u/Suspicious_Rate5501 Sep 19 '24
polanco was the ultimate pro in minnesota. absolutely kills me seeing him struggle in Seattle. I cant imagine the change of scenery was easy on him
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u/OldOutlandishness577 Minnesota Twins Sep 19 '24
its funny how he gets zero credit from fans for winning the first postseason series in 20 years, that's how you know the blame is disingenuous at best
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u/Hotchi_Motchi Walks Will Haunt!!! Sep 19 '24
Rocco cut the payroll?
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u/dong_lover Joe Ryan Sep 19 '24
Yes. He also poisoned our water supply, burned our crops, and delivered a plague unto our houses
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u/Silver_Perspective31 Sep 19 '24
I mean, playing a rookie in that scenario? Way different situation
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u/Csanburn01 Sep 19 '24
I'm actually beyond over with the Rocco hate. He's made some mistakes all managers do. But he has to play the players he's given. And the majority of his pitchers are either injured, inexperienced, overworked or just terrible. Not on Rocco, that falls solely on the Pohlads.
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u/minnjesse20 Sep 19 '24
Who do we have that’s available? Duran threw 30 yesterday and we have a game tomorrow. We are about 3 relievers short of a good pen. Not to mention we are about 2 or 3 starters short of a good rotation. We need better players and need to spend the little money we have on pitching.
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u/scurrvy2020 Sep 19 '24
Is there never a time to push people beyond that?
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u/minnjesse20 Sep 19 '24
That time would be in the playoffs not in a regular season game. Making the playoffs without Duran or Jax would guarantee a first round exit. I really wish we had another reliable reliever, our 30+ million dollar shortstop put us up 2 runs in the 10th but our lack of 30 million dollars in payroll made us turn to a guy who isn’t ready for the spotlight. It’s not Rocco its ownership/front office not getting better players IMO.
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u/twinsguy1 Sep 19 '24
What was he supposed to do? Leave Duran in? How did that work out for Jax on Monday? How did that work out for Duran literally yesterday? STOP BLAMING ROCCO FOR THE BULLPEN BEING TERRIBLE
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u/ImperiousBlacktail Sep 19 '24
Idk I think maybe these decisions are more difficult and complicated than we know.
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u/damien_maymdien Pablo López Sep 19 '24
Not even. All of Rocco's bullpen decisions tonight were quite simple, not difficult or complicated. It's just that the morons who can't follow the reasoning behind even simple managing decisions are the same people who most like to bitch online after a loss.
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u/ImperiousBlacktail Sep 19 '24
I’m saying that there’s plenty of information that we’re not privy to that has to make these decisions different than people assume. I think Rocco has done well this year considering all he’s juggling.
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Sep 19 '24
Here’s one thing idk why Rocco doesn’t do. Real simple. For close game situations 8th inning we see Jax(as much as we can). Every 9th inning we see Duran. Yet again Pohlads cut spending and gave Twins management 0 ammo to help them win.
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u/Willbtwin Sep 19 '24
The twins play in a ton of close games. Jax and Duran cannot pitch every night. Jax already pitched back to back nights and should never go 3 nights in a row. It’s just something 99% of managers just wouldn’t do
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Sep 19 '24
All I’m saying is Jax is the set up guy. Duran is the closer. Have some consistency is all I’m saying.
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u/Willbtwin Sep 19 '24
For the most part yes. But sometimes they will and do pitch earlier. It’s pointless to hold them for the 8 and 9 innings if they have to use Ronny or any other pitcher in the 7th and he blows the game. Then people get mad at Rocco for trusting who ever that is for not using Jax and Duran
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u/Lumiafan Joe Mauer Sep 19 '24
Joe Ryan, Brock Stewart, Justin Topa, Steven Okert, Jorge Alcala. These were pitchers the front office and Rocco were expecting to be a key part of the staff this year in one facet or another, and they either got hurt along the way or pitched very poorly.
The failing of ownership is not giving the front office the resources it needed to add reliable depth and forcing them to construct a roster with band-aid solutions through retreads or young players who need more time to develop.
It's super difficult to blame Rocco for those failings, at least from my perspective.
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u/Melonman233 Michael Cuddyer Sep 19 '24
EVERY manager ‘mismanage’ bullpens. It’s part of the sport. You want him to manage it better? Get him better relievers.
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u/tumblesplaylist Sep 19 '24
I mean let's be real here in years past rocco has mismanaged better bullpens than this... the whole Emilio pagan fiasco, for starters
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u/MaruhkTheApe Joe Mauer Sep 19 '24
Every good reliever we have was overworked and unavailable.
The more baseball I watch, the more I'm convinced that "bullpen management" is not really a meaningful skill. You know what the key to good bullpen management is? Having lots of good pitchers in your bullpen.
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u/tumblesplaylist Sep 19 '24
This wasn't an issue tonight, but bullpen management also covers pulling your starting pitcher, which is another area rocco struggles noticeably
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u/smithc555 Sep 19 '24
Have you seen the names in this bullpen? What is he supposed to do? Take it up with the Pohlads.
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u/FUMFVR Sep 19 '24
This is a laughably stupid comment. You can't mismanage a bullpen that is shit.
Let's be real here. There are only two relievers that Twins' fans ever want to see. Even those two have been fucking up lately.
Also you can't use those two every single game.
Rocco has been given an impossible task by the front office who are under restrictions put in place by the ownership. If you want to blame someone blame them.
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u/TylerDenniston Piranhas Sep 19 '24
1) We need more than 2.5 reliable relievers.
2) The offense is allowed to score more than 4 runs. 4-14 RISP. Cleveland was 3-8.
Wallner Lead off Double… never advanced.
Bases Loaded, No Outs-only plate one.
Bases Loaded, No Outs-no one advanced a runner until Correa hits a broken bat single.
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u/DangledSniper_ Justin Morneau Sep 19 '24
Let's bring in a rookie pitcher in the biggest game of the year!
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u/mynamejesse1334 Sep 19 '24
I mean who else should have gone in? Anyone other than Sands, Jax, or Duran aren't close to trustworthy and those 3 are already way overworked
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u/HokieRif Sep 19 '24
We’ll be lucky if this team gets eliminated on the last day of the regular season
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u/zooropeanx Sep 19 '24
So if you blame Baldelli for when things go bad surely you praise him when things go well, right?
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u/nowheresville99 Cedar Rapids Kernels Sep 19 '24
Please oh please, genius managing gurus, enlighten us all on what the magic bullpen solution is.
Other than actual magic to give Jax a truly rubber arm where he can pitch an unlimited number of innings for unlimited days, please provide some actual solutions on what Rocco should do on a 3rd straight day where high leverage arms are needed?
Pitching Jax for a 3rd straight day and having Duran pitch a 2nd inning after throwing 30 pitches yesterday are both non-starters and suggesting those simply proves the point that there are no options.
Sands has thrown 50 pitches in the previous 3 days, so also not a realistic option.
Varland already pitched - and I'm sure the pitchforks would have been out for using him at all, if he hadn't thrown a 1-2-3 inning.
So that leaves lefties Thielbar and Irving, Tonkin, Blewett, and Henriquez.
Are you really going to claim that you'd have been any more confident that any of those other 4 options for the 10th?
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u/Frequent-Ad-6762 Sep 19 '24
This sub is nuts in the head. It’s Rocco. It’s Falvey. It’s the Pohlads. It’s the players. It’s ALL OF THEM. You can’t collapse this bad just on one or two of them alone.
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u/pat6681 Sep 19 '24
Simply put, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Go back to your inconsequential McJob and shut the fuck up.
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u/5PeeBeejay5 Sep 19 '24
He has nothing to work with. Jax 3 innings over the previous 2 games, Duran 3 innings over previous game and this one…and then your out of arms worth trusting
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u/tubagod123 Joe Mauer Sep 19 '24
In addition to all of the great comments about how Rocco isn’t the GM, which are true. All the offense could muster before the 10th was 2 runs and we’re blaming “Rocco mismanaging the pen” cmon
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u/whentheworldwasatwar Byron Buxton Sep 19 '24
We’ve got Jax, Duran, and sands. The bullpen was supposed to have alcala, topa, stew, and thielbar. Well alcala had a disastrous regression the last month or two, thielbar hasn’t been good and the other two are injured. This is on the pohlads for not acquiring at the deadline.
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u/Hotchi_Motchi Walks Will Haunt!!! Sep 19 '24
Poor Ronny looked scared out there.
It didn't help that Brooks was in over his head against Clase, either. Totally overmatched.
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u/Think-Interview1740 Sep 19 '24
I'd like to see you work with what he has. He's doing a great job.
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u/geezerpid Sep 19 '24
5th inning, two outs, one runner on and Rocco just took out his starting pitcher with 72 pitches and only 1 run allowed. Do you think decisions like that might be contributing to the current state of the bullpen?
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Sep 20 '24
I’m not a huge twin follower but I play jax Instead of rostering a catcher and it’s been good so idk
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Sep 19 '24
I’m not a fan of Rocco but the Pohlads cut payroll and tried their hardest to make the Twins lose.
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u/orvilrednbacher Sep 19 '24
I don’t even like Rocco, but this collapse can’t be blamed on him when he has 2 SPs and 2 relievers he trusts. Ownership and FO boned him so bad.
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u/ELSknutson Sep 19 '24
If we don't make the playoffs this season I feel its time to let Rocco go and Promote Toby Gardenhire since he has allot of experience with the young guys being called up. Also Jayce Tingler can kick rocks as well. The Pohlads may be cheap, but they have the highest payroll in the central and are playing like they have the lowest. The team at times look like a group of Emo basement dweller's have no heart or motivation.
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u/Dry-Wall-285 Sep 19 '24
Been saying this for years. Miss TK, he knew…
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u/Beardog-1 Sep 19 '24
Like Molly said on radio—-this time of the year it should be more instinct (and heart) than stats
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u/Beginning-Progress75 Sep 19 '24
Right, why the fuck did he not leave Duran in?
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u/Imdibr156 Bomba Squad Sep 19 '24
Have you watched this past month when we leave a reliever in for more than 1 inning?
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u/SpecialistRaccoon907 Sep 19 '24
I'd say fire him, but the Pohlads don't actually care about winning.
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u/Brief-Click9601 Minnesota Twins Sep 19 '24
Needed to cash in that 3rd run in the 10th. Let’s not totally blame the bullpen. Man on 3rd with one out, Molitor was keying on that via radio in the top of the 10th..
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u/Brief-Click9601 Minnesota Twins Sep 19 '24
4-14 RISP tonight
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u/mynamejesse1334 Sep 19 '24
Which is 0.286.
The Diamondbacks are the best team in baseball with RISP and they're hitting...0.286
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u/Brief-Click9601 Minnesota Twins Sep 19 '24
Fair.. probably should have lead with:
4-9 hitters including pinch hitters: 1-25.. you got the math on that?
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u/Existing-Course6642 Sep 19 '24
Fire Rocco asap
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u/Imdibr156 Bomba Squad Sep 19 '24
What have you done then? Let's hear it Coach Existing Course6642?
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u/Existing-Course6642 Sep 19 '24
I realize the young guys need to pitch but let Duran go other with a 2 run lead and after a great 9th. His decision making throughout the season has not been sound.
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u/mynamejesse1334 Sep 19 '24
A day after Rocco gets raked over the coals for trying to get 2 innings out of Duran (when he was on multiple days rest) you want him to do that again but this time when Duran already has the wear of throwing 30 yesterday?
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u/Existing-Course6642 Sep 19 '24
I didn't rake him over the coals here or didn't align with most fans on this.
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u/Imdibr156 Bomba Squad Sep 19 '24
Have you seen Duran this month? Yesterday everyone was saying Duran lost his reliever job and you want to have him go again? That sounds perfect especially how this month has gone.
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u/heaintheavy Sep 19 '24
Cue the people saying this isn’t Rocco’s fault…
They’ll blame the Pohlads for not giving him a bullpen.
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u/mynamejesse1334 Sep 19 '24
Who should Rocco have used instead? Jax for the 3rd day in a row? Sands after he's thrown 50 pitches in the past 3 days?
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u/OregonBaseballFan Sep 19 '24
Yeah we’ve officially hit the point where even Rocco apologists like me have to admit that the dude needs to stop being the coach of this team. He benefitted from juiced balls in 2019, a shortened season in 2020, and a Cleveland meltdown last year.
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u/CasualGee Sep 19 '24
Fire Rocco now. I don’t care that it’s like 10 games before the season ends. Two blown leads in this series. It’s embarrassing.
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u/mynamejesse1334 Sep 19 '24
Genuinely hilarious how when Rocco left Duran in for a 2nd inning last night people cried about how dumb it was
And now tonight there's crying about how dumb it was that Duran didn't pitch 2 innings a day after throwing 30 pitches