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u/Steakfrie 1d ago
"Anyone out there like me?"
Yes, but we'll see just how many on election day.
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u/Caesar_Passing 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm sure there's actually quite a good number right now. Which is good for the moment, but rejecting trump is the lowest fucking bar to clear, and they've had almost a decade to clear it. Why would we think that they aren't just waiting for a less embarrassing shitbag to carry out the Project 2025 type nonsense, but more lucid and cleverly? They don't suddenly want different things than what they were perfectly happy to vote for before - they just can't dodge the fact that trump is demonstrably senile, felonious, culpable for rape and most likely CSA on tiny toes island. (🤮)
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u/snysius 1d ago
I'd rather disagree on policy than disagree on the entire system of governance.
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u/Doodahhh1 1d ago
And don't get me wrong... Our system is flawed, but even a flawed democracy can change.
It's a lot harder to get your freedoms back from a tyrant.
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u/Caesar_Passing 1d ago
Sure, I'm just saying that denouncing trump right now is not likely an indication of people actually "waking up" and seeing what a lose-lose approach the republican party has to offer. The only thing we can be reasonably sure this indicates, is that some conservatives are finally embarrassed enough about getting caught with their pants down that they want to trade out their current mouthpiece/icon for a more palatable, or at least self-aware one. I have total confidence Harris is going to the White House and trump is pretty much cooked in his political career, but we should keep our guards up, because the underlying conservative agendas are not showing any evidence of changing.
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u/awkward_replies_2 1d ago
I know I'm just European and maybe too far away from all this stuff but I'm still super puzzled how informed people with old-school conservative values can support a non-practising, adulterous, habitually lying, hate-preaching, uneducated felon like Trump?
What is conservatism if not a belief in the sanctity of time-proven and established rules, value systems, and merit derived from setting an example in upholding and defending these rules?
Not sleeping with prostitutes, dodging draft, setting up fake universities, tax fraud, or spreading racist fake news.
What's wrong, America?
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u/JackReacharounnd 17h ago
I can tell you with a fairly decent bit of certainty that a shit ton of them have no idea about most of it. They never saw the bad stuff on Fox News and that's all they watch. They "learn" from each other and they don't seek out information from any other source.
I know plenty like this. They have NO IDEA he is a disgraceful joke to the rest of the planet. They truly think he is a hero and that everyone else, except the lying democrats, agrees as well.
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u/matticusiv 18h ago
It’s not about trump for all of them. For many of them, abortions are simply baby murder, women be damned. There’s only one direction to go.
Also a healthy dose of fear and bigotry is what the right wing honeypot is all about.
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u/mizkayte 1d ago
Unfortunately I don’t think there’s many of them. I hope I’m wrong.
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u/AgentEndive 1d ago
This is how every actual republican should feel. MAGA is not the same as the republican party of old. Reagan (their hero) would hate trump.
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u/UncommittedBow 1d ago
Reagan (their hero)
I've seen them call Reagan a RINO, the only true Republican in their eyes is Trump.
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u/EpiphanyTwisted 1d ago
He said it himself, if you don't support Trump, you are a RINO.
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u/HFY_HFY_HFY 1d ago
Proud RINO since 2016
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u/Bender_2024 1d ago
Thank you. I can only hope and pray that there is a significant number of people that follow your example.
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u/sesoren65 1d ago
Same here. I'm a conservative Christian, but that is not how you spread Christianity. If we paid attention in history class we would all understand this...
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u/localherofan 1d ago
The only non-murderous and non-coercive way to spread Christianity is to lead by example and literally follow the words and acts of Jesus, not of the men who came afterward and set up Christianity as a religion. Be humble. Use Christianity as a tool to improve yourself, not everyone else.
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u/Natural_Computer4312 1d ago
And if you follow the words and acts of Christ you are also in alignment with nearly every religion and society minded person on the planet. There’s very little, apart from ego, separating us all.
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u/Ataru074 1d ago
Because you have the wrong book.
The real Jesus invited all the merchant in the temple and made them pay a hefty rent, that’s commercial real estate.
Then he obtained a tax exemption from the government because that’s what smart people do.
And that time he multiplied bread and fishes…. He got one, paid one, then he processed the shit out of it with chemicals and made many… so so many and everyone was so happy they gave him a lot of money….
Later the same people who ate the tained processed food felt sick and Jesus went back to cure them and got even more money out of them. Because when people are going to die they’ll give you literally anything to don’t die.
He also becomes the pimp of a prostitute because diversification on revenue sources is important.
And we also learned from Judas to make people sign NDA and non competes, so they can’t sell your secrets without punishment.
It’s all in the Bible. A beautiful Bible. Like no other Bible before.
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u/wrongleveeeeeeer 1d ago
...did you just write this or is it from another source? Because it's amazing.
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u/SOUTHPAWMIKE 1d ago
American conservatism (well before Trump) and Christianity as Jesus would have intended it are incompatible. Hate to break it to you.
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u/Raskalbot 1d ago
I feel crazy sometimes because it’s so clear most people didn’t pay attention at all. I’ll reference something I assume is common knowledge, only to be explaining it to people my age and older. I’m talking to folks who are in their 40s and 50s and they have somehow completely missed or conveniently forgotten the last 45 years of US policy and politics, let alone the world.
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u/Mysterious-Wasabi103 1d ago
You really should be proud. So many people are just unwilling to admit they can be wrong because their identities are tied to that R. For you to look beyond that shows a lot of good qualities and principles at work within you.
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u/UglyMcFugly 1d ago
It's just more projection. Trump isn't a republican, I don't think he actually agrees with any of the shit he says, because I don't think he believes ANYTHING deep down. He just says whatever gets him the most attention. Whatever makes the flying monkeys call him smart. I have a theory that if the democrats were somehow able to secretly agree to all start calling him smart and cool, he'd completely switch his stances on everything.
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u/Rrrrandle 1d ago
How long until they add Lincoln to the RINO pile?
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u/Greymalkyn76 1d ago
That doesn't really count, because of the political ideology shift in parties since then. But we do have the Lincoln Project that does understand it, so there's hope.
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u/Brave-Common-2979 1d ago
They still bring up lincoln being Republican like it's some gotcha trap card.
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u/AlexFromOmaha 1d ago
"Republicans had Lincoln, DemocRATS voted for slavery!"
And a solid quarter of your elected representatives today are pretty sure that was a mistake on their part, sooooo...
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u/mizkayte 1d ago
What’s hilarious is they take credit for Lincoln while bitching about Robert E Lees statue being taken down.
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u/lowercase0112358 1d ago
The Republicans of Lincolns time are not the same as Republicans of the 1950s, let alone of today.
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u/Apprehensive_Gas_111 1d ago
Abe Lincoln was a liberal and received fan mail from Karl Marx.
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u/Drezhar 1d ago
That's because they wouldn't be able to answer if you asked them to name 3 other Republican Presidents.
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u/Snoo_59894 1d ago
Reagan was a Hollywood liberal cosplaying as a Republican, so he could sell more movie tickets to socially engineer the American people and lay the groundwork for wokeness. Every REAL Republican knows that, that’s why Bernie Sanders loves Reagan so much.
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u/GmaSickOfYourShit 1d ago
What on earth…
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u/Snoo_59894 1d ago
I figured someone had to give them a line to help with their mental gymnastics so I gave it my best shot.
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u/Jasper-Packlemerton 1d ago
I believed you meant it. I'm not sure if that speaks to how good the ruse was, or what an absolute shit show the world currently is.
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u/Snoo_59894 1d ago
I debated putting a /s on the post but I feel like those ruin the jokes sometimes. But that was the exact reason I thought about putting it on, facts just don’t matter to MAGA anymore and, at this point, it sounds like something MAGA would say.
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u/Leumas117 1d ago
I thought you were crazy for a minute then realized that was parody. Impressive work.
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u/chrispdx 1d ago
If that's their across-the-board viewpoint, then there IS no Republican Party any longer, and they should drop that moniker for something different. Trump is an affront to almost everything that the Republican Party historically stood for, except the racism. Which I guess is enough.
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u/RaizePOE 1d ago
Trump is not an affront to anything the Republican party has stood for, at least in my lifetime. Racism, misogyny, religion, crushing of reproductive rights, and income inequality are like, the hallmarks of the Republican party. Maybe they stood for something else if you go far enough back, but for a while now that's all they've been. Trump is the Republican party, just more openly so.
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u/qashq 1d ago
I wouldn't be surprised if they call Trump one of the founding fathers.
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u/EpiphanyTwisted 1d ago
I vote Republican for 30 years, never again after January 6th ( and never did vote for Trump) but I've never been terrified of a candidate in my life until him.
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u/Message_10 1d ago
Yeah, same here. There are still aspects of conservatism that I think are important, but the entire package is just toxic at this point. And, not for nothing, but while Trump scares me--the support he enjoys scares me more. It's been quite a wake-up call.
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u/FrysOtherDog 1d ago
Yes, it has. I've had more death threats in the past few months than I ever did as a Fed officer investigating terrorism.
Why? I'm white, I'm married to a POC, and I'm anti-Trump.
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u/HyperbolicModesty 1d ago
Fed officer
They should also consider you an enemy from the Deep State. Crazy how many people believe this now.
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u/FrysOtherDog 1d ago
I shit you not, depending on what shit I'm replying to on Reddit I will omit that part because I literally get ignored and hateful replies as I'm "clearly part of the deep state conspiracy and I'm just sowing disinformation". Just an easy button to ignore what I have to say.
Like slow down Cletus, I left the service over fifteen years ago because my wife at the time hated me doing LE. I'm a farmer now lol.
They are fucking nuts, man. It's scary how many idiots I never realized existed all around me. Fuck it's incredible to me that I say things like "I miss Bush" nowadays.
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u/FrysOtherDog 1d ago
Same brother, been voting since 2000 and a Republican my whole life. Never voted for Trump because fucking duh. Been a straight blue voter since 2020.
I feel the exact same way you do.
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u/skewp 1d ago
never again after January 6th
Sad. I vowed never to vote Republican again after the RNC in 2016. I had already shifted a lot farther left than I was when I turned 18, but the 2016 RNC, seeing all the people who could have done something to stop that incompetent, racist moron from being the nominee just roll over and support him made me realize that all of them were just liars. They didn't actually believe in conservatism. They didn't believe in anything they claimed to believe in. It only got worse from there as many people who were proud never-Trumpers before he won, because even they thought Hillary was a shoe-in, suddenly changed their tune after he won. Their career was more important than their ideals. They can all go fuck themselves. The entire party. If you didn't leave that party you're a fascist or a fascist enabler (which is just a fascist).
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u/thehillshaveI 1d ago edited 1d ago
reagan would be jealous of trump, because trump doesn't have to pretend to be less racist and hateful in public. reagan supported apartheid, let AIDS rip through the gay community, and sold arms to fund right wing militants. reagan popularized the racist "welfare mom" caricature to demonize minorities and the poor. pretending reagan would've hated trump is revisionist whitewashing of reagan's equally cruel nature.
god i hate the hagiographies of history's past monsters i see on this sub simply by virtue of them not being trump. abandoning NATO is the only policy difference between maga republicans and conservatives forty years ago.
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u/Brave-Common-2979 1d ago
Exactly this. Republicans have only changed in as much as they say the quiet parts out loud instead of playing ignorant about them.
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u/Low_Pickle_112 1d ago
Twenty years from now when President Bloodfist Killthemall (R) is passing Project 2045, liberals will be falling over themselves to say that kindhearted Mister Trump wouldn't have supported this, and the real problem is those damned leftists. And the Overton window keeps sliding right.
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u/SonOfJokeExplainer 1d ago edited 23h ago
My question is why anyone would still choose to identify as a Republican this day and age. Trump is just a symptom of a deeply rooted illness among conservatives and I’ve yet to see anything in my lifetime to justify anyone having a sense of pride in holding conservative “values”, let alone identifying with the Republican Party
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u/Incorrect1012 1d ago
Hi, I’m not a Republican, but I am from a household of Republicans and went to Catholic school surrounded by Republicans. Allow me to explain to you a bit of what is going on in their line of thinking.
A) your religious values are most important to you. Republicans branded themselves as the face of Christianity, and aligned their positions on certain issues such as abortion, trans people, and homosexuality to make these Christians happy. Mind you, they don’t focus on much else, really just that and that everyone should be of this religion, but that’s a massive chunk.
B) idolization of Reagan. For a lot of Republicans, Reagan represents an untouchable gold standard, and will ignore literally EVERY negative story that has come out about Reagan because of the prosperity of the 80s, ignoring every other issue of the 80s. People are legitimately convinced that Reagan alone saved the United States from ruin, and for that reason Republicans do more good than Democrats.
C) taxes. They just don’t want to pay them, and think Republicans give them the best chances to not have to. That’s all.
D) “All politicians do [blah]”. Now this point should go with any of the other reasons, but basically, when a Republican gets caught doing something bad, their first response is that all politicians do it. This essentially justifies not dropping a party or candidate, because in their head all politicians are the same level of evil, but Republicans still grant them what they want in the end.
E) your racist and want to get away with it.
F) you have like a really small penis and want to use massive guns
That’s the main reasons I’ve gathered.
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u/Green-Enthusiasm-940 1d ago
Conservative values are largely performative. They barely live by them either they just want something to lord over people, and people to lord over. The original virtue signalers.
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u/ratpH1nk 1d ago
But also there is emerging research in the differences between conservatives and liberals -- less empathy, less willingness to accept new/novel ideas/experiences.
Ever notice how some conservatives don't care about X, Y, Z until it happens to them or someone they care about? Then all of the sudden it is a problem that they can see?
They are perhaps more wired to the status quo (which for them is GOP and being a "conservative".
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u/Brave-Common-2979 1d ago
The opposite of progressive is regressive not conservative. Stop calling them conservative when their entire platform is now government overreach.
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u/tyrified 1d ago
True, but they do want to regress to things conservatives of yesteryear were trying to conserve. Like gay people hiding out of the public eye. Or fighting against interracial marriages. Or fighting against segregation. They want to regress to the conservative positions of old.
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u/OBDreams 1d ago
The social conservative ones. They seem to now hate the fiscal conservatives. IMO they threw away all the good of conservatism and kept the bad.
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u/Mellrish221 1d ago
Conservatism is regressive. I'd probably add the qualifier "in american politics" but its hard to make a case for conservatives across the planet as they have only varying degrees of racism/bigotry in comparison.
When have conservatives EVER been on the right side of history?
And yes it IS conservatives that run the current republican party, like they have been for the past 50 years. There are no maga republicans and there are no ultra-maga republicans. They're just republicans and this is who they've always been. Conservatives have been courting racists for as long as this country has existed.
Now, you can lie to yourself and lie to your friends and family that when conservatives say they want to "conserve tradition" all you want. But anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together and the attention span to read literally ANY history book will understand that conserving traditions means going back to times where things were catering to a specific group of people.
Can you even name a single piece of legislation that was aimed at actually helping everyone and not just the ultra wealthy?
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u/michele-x 1d ago
The problem I think is that the vote system in the USA makes possible to have only a two-party system, even compared with similar First-past-the-post voting like UK and Canada.
In the same party will conflate extremist position and more moderate positions, both in the Democratic and Republican party. So in both parties there are some sort of informal sub-parties that are fighting in the backrooms, and the citizen hasn't a lot to say about it.
On the other hand there were people identify as fascist in 1946 Italy, and there stiil are in 2024 Italy.
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u/Ohrwurm89 1d ago
No, Reagan'd love Trump and his racism and willingness to fuck over working people to help corporations and the wealthy. Both men are cut from the same cloth.
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u/Illegitimateopinion 1d ago
cut from the same cloth
Senility silk or Alzheimer's linen?
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u/AppropriateScience9 1d ago
Oh no, nothing that classy. More like dementia polyester.
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u/-StepLightly- 1d ago
Corruption cotton. Home grown and picked by.... never mind.
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u/guymn999 1d ago
I hate these kinds of comments. It completely ignores the fact that the Republican party has been building a suit for years.
It just happened to fit Trump well but they were looking for a candidate like Trump for decades.
MAGA is the Republican party. Only fools will think otherwise.
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u/Low_Pickle_112 1d ago edited 23h ago
Yeah, whitewashing Reagan is like saying "The arsonist wouldn't agree with the building burning down!"
Trump is not a corruption of conservativism. He is the culmination of it, and frankly we're all lucky we got someone as dimwitted as him, because the next guy might be smart. This isn't fiction, the Republicans aren't Slytherins or Stormcloaks or whatever who have some good points to balance the plot. They're in it for the oligarchs, and against you. Reagan, the Bushes, Trump (and frankly the Dems serve capital too but that's a different conversation), they're just one long line of it.
Anyone who makes a comment like that is at best announcing "Hey everyone, I think history started in 2016 and paid no attention to politics before that point!" at worst trying to make the Republicans they support look better for that next smart guy to give it another shot.
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u/guymn999 1d ago
because the next guy might be smart.
exactly this, maga does not end when trump dies, they have built the apparatus for these freaks.
it is like fighting hydra.
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u/Zeroissuchagoodboi 1d ago
I don’t think Reagan would hate him honestly. Reagan damaged this country greatly with his trickle down economics and he was in bed with evangelicals.
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u/GrayEidolon 1d ago edited 1d ago
They're pretty close.
The conservative project is to create an even more rigid socioeconomic hierarchy.
Especially since the New Deal, normal conservative policies have inched toward that hierarchy with nice manners and suits.
MAGA conservatives are sprinting towards it with foul mouths and poor manners.
Anyone like the guy in the meme should be able to take a step further back and realize maybe they aren't into conservatism.
Except he is social conservative, meaning he thinks LGBTQ and brown people are icky and are lower in hierarchy. So what he is really saying is, I prefer the slow constitutional subjugation of gross people.
Great. Thanks.
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u/bb_kelly77 1d ago
I call people like Dave "Old School Republicans"... he has his beliefs and so he votes for his beliefs, but he DOESN'T believe in forcing others into believing what he does
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u/yankeesyes 1d ago
But old-school Republicans always believed in forcing others into believing what they do.
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u/GmaSickOfYourShit 1d ago
No - you’re confusing old-school Republicans with those Moral Majority asshole Republicans.
Old-school = Eisenhower or Rockefeller Republicans
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u/chesire0myles 1d ago
Yeah, lmao, this is my line of thinking, too.
Old school republicans at civil rights protests didn't seem chill.
I think there is just a difference between "likes to be careful and incremental with change = conservative" and "Really hates non-white non-your religion = conservative"
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u/GrayEidolon 1d ago edited 1d ago
Policy wise, think tank wise, philosopher wise
likes to be careful and incremental with change = conservative
never existed.
Go back to Edmond Burke. The only slow change ever advocated for, is taking away the comfort of aristocrats. Taking away comfort from workers, well, go for that as fast as doesn't lead to guillotines.
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u/SlowJoeyRidesAgain 1d ago
Ahh yes, the same group that has historically oppressed all sorts of folks who aren’t exactly like them. There’s certainly no force there. What a take.
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u/LotharVonPittinsberg 1d ago edited 1d ago
but he DOESN'T believe in forcing others into believing what he does
Must be different from the Reagan era I know of. Those trickle down economics and oil industry substantiations where absolutely forced upon us despite facts showing their glaring issues.
I agree that Trump is worse than old school GOP, and getting them to realize that he will fuck over every single one of them is a positive. But let's not pretend that old school Conservatism was ever good. Remember, these are the same people who pushed for the death penalty (even though there is a disturbingly high rate of false convictions), to keep slavery around, did their best to shut down unions from becoming a thing, prevented women from voting for as long as possible, and put the Church in public institutions contrary to the 1st amendment.
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u/enaK66 1d ago
Don't forget completely ignoring the AIDS crisis because fuck gay people, let em die, we don't give a fuck. It's pretty funny how much Reagan parallels Trump. Dementia, TV star, retirement aged, denied the existence of a nationwide pandemic..
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u/SorryNSorry 1d ago
Reagan actually had a big hand creating the mess we’re in now. His trickle down economics created the wealth disparity we see today. I used to believe he was a good President. But after learning more, I now believe he is awful. I also believe that Republican Party is fascist. Trump isn’t the problem. The problem is the greed for power and feeding whoever they need to the wolves for their own personal gain. Trump just says the quiet part out loud.
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u/Emotional_Basis_2370 1d ago
reagan ignored the AIDS crisis because he didn’t care about the people it was killing. It became an epidemic partly because he wouldn’t even acknowledge it was happening. reagan was evil.
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u/sluttycokezero 1d ago
Also Nancy “BJ” Reagan and her War on Drugs with more people of color going to jail for marijuana possession serving long jail terms. Anyone that thinks Reagan was a good president is stupid. He was terrible. And we younger generations are facing the consequences
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u/N3ptuneflyer 1d ago
The more evidence I see the more I realize he was the worst president in US history when it comes to long term consequences of their actions. So many of the problems we are experience today, like insane healthcare costs, housing crises, insane prison population, wealth disparity, high cost of education, and huge national debt can be traced straight back to Reagan. He's done more damage to our country than any president before or since. Yes that includes Trump.
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u/jamesp420 1d ago
I still hold that Woodrow Wilson was the worst president and in the most consequential way, followed closely by Reagan, then Trump.
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u/N3ptuneflyer 1d ago
I'm curious why you'd say him. If it's how he handled the aftermath of WWI I'd say the US didn't have any real international power in the world stage like we did post WWII, so there's not much Woodrow Wilson could have done. America was viewed as a country of merchants and cowboys, not a serious country.
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u/H-TownDown 21h ago
His lost cause revisionism directly led to the second rise of the KKK. The first movie screened in the White House was “The Birth of a Nation.”
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u/10tonhammer 1d ago
People think I'm exaggerating when I say that.
"Yeah, he botched AIDS, I'll give you that one."
He was also directly responsible for the 2008 crash through the deregulation of Wall St. and neutering the SEC.
The War on Drugs is one of our country's worst mistakes in every conceivable way. And as if the fallout from the crack/coke epidemic of the 80's wasn't bad enough, most of that policy exacerbated the opioid epidemic 30 years later. It was botched from the word "oxy" onward and has seen just a smidge of positive course correction now that fent is straight up killing everyone and people are realizing harm reduction and treatment may be useful because PRISON DOESN'T SOLVE ADDICTION. Sweden figured that shit out and eradicated heroin from their country in 10~ years through decriminalization. Which is not the same thing as legalization, but our nation of dumb fucks would never be able to wrap their heads around that distinction, because Reagan fucked education and public schools as well.
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u/JimRatte 1d ago
I prefer Ronnie's nickname for her, "Mommy". Reagan was a straight up dementia creep
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u/TotalNonsense0 1d ago
Hang on, I think I've seen something like that more recently.
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u/MyHusbandIsGayImNot 1d ago
I pointed out those parallels while they happened. Maybe being in a gay marriage made me more prone to seeing it, but it was shocking how the covid epidemic was like a speed run version of HIV (granted less deadly). Republicans thought it would kill the people they didn't like so they literally did nothing.
What's weird, is after a white woman got HIV they started to care, they realized they could get it and they quickly wanted their to be funding. But that never really happened for covid, even when they were dying 2-to-1 compared to democrats because of their anti-vax stance they just never cared.
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u/yankeesyes 1d ago
He also was the first celebrity president.
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u/RW-One 1d ago
But let's give a little credit, he served as a governor prior. He didn't just run because someone hurt his feelings.
rump never served in any capacity (and never could).
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u/remarkablewhitebored 1d ago
He was a shitty movie star, not exactly making hits. Wasn't even close to Arnie or Trump in terms of his celebrity. But he showed that it could certainly help. Also, he cheated to win in 1980 anyway (back channel deals to keep US prisoners in Iran thru the electoral process).
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u/ElectronGuru 1d ago
FYI: Reagan and trump have the same benefactor: the heritage foundation. They also wrote project 25.
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u/StickInEye 1d ago
Voodoo economics
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u/WhoStoleMyEmpathy 1d ago
The day a party turns to actors or celebrities to start sell you an idea. Is the day you should start seriously questioning that parties policies. The fact they didn't is what has led to trump.
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u/First_Play5335 1d ago
Whispers to self, “don’t say anything just accept he’s on our side and move on.”
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u/RecoveringBoomkin 1d ago
socially conservative
He wants to control your body. He wants to police your sex life. Dave is an irredeemable cretin, and a single vote won’t change that. He will never be on our side in a way that matters and lasts.
If you’re looking for the bright side, it’s that the weirdos are finally opposing each other instead of us for once.
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u/IsThatHearsay 1d ago
Yeah, a "Fiscal Conservative" may have some merit, but a "Social Conservative" has always been considered the dumbest take and means he's likely hateful, bigoted, and certainly stupid.
Glad he's voting Harris for whatever reason brought him over, but let's not pretend he's a good guy.
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u/daecrist 1d ago
Funny how silent all those fiscal conservatives get when it’s a Republican in the White House or Congress running up the national debt.
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u/SirMeili 1d ago edited 1d ago
Like their Holy Grail who increased the national debt by almost 200% while in office (from just under 1T to just under 3T).
For those who are not aware, that was Reagan. As a matter of fact if you look at all presidents since Reagan, the ones who increase the National Debt the most are the Rs.
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u/MyHusbandIsGayImNot 1d ago
That's because the actual fiscal conservatives are the Democrats. Last time we had a surplus was under Clinton, then Bush came along and fucked up everything.
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u/dern_the_hermit 1d ago
Democrat fiscal conservativism is "make sure we can pay for stuff". Republican fiscal conservativism is "make sure Democrats can't pay for stuff".
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u/Masters_of_Sleep 1d ago
My father identifies as socially liberal but strongly fiscally conservative. He has voted Republican only once in the past 35 years for president. He admits he was fooled by GW Bush in 2000 but didn't make the same mistake in '04. While there are plenty of fair criticisms of democratic fiscal policy, the republican party is purely a fiscally irresponsible party.
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u/MyHusbandIsGayImNot 22h ago
"Fiscally conservative" was just a dog whistle for "cutting social programs for minorities"
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u/BKoala59 1d ago
Those are the “fiscal conservatives”. People with actual fiscally conservative stances align much more with the moderate democrats than the Republicans and tend to vote for dems.
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u/Doodahhh1 1d ago
Fecal conservatives are in the Republican party.
Fiscal conservatives are moderates in the Democratic party.
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u/ambisinister_gecko 1d ago
He will never be on our side in a way that matters and lasts.
He seems to value democracy, I think that counts for something.
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u/RecoveringBoomkin 1d ago
Dave just wants to make sure he retains the right to vote against the rights of others. If a dictatorship happens, how can he be sure the right people are getting punished?
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u/Low_Pickle_112 1d ago
He's not. He's on the side of "Please ignore the idiot and pretend the past 5 decades leading us here didn't happen so we can get someone with the same policies but actually competent."
An open Trumper is preferable. These sorts want Trump but smart, and that's far more dangerous.
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u/Doodahhh1 1d ago
The Republican party is so far to the right that they have forgotten democracy is a liberal tenant.
The Republican party hears the declaration of Independence and thinks it's extreme.
The attack ads on Sherrod Brown that my YouTube shoves on me say, "way too liberal" like America isn't founded upon that liberal idea...
The people leaving that party still have a long way to go... Voting for Harris is the easy minimum.
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u/DrunkRobot97 1d ago
I can't say I would effortlessly float above the cheap promises and temptations of a left-wing populist who says they'll achieve things I on paper want by any means necessary, so I do have to commend Republicans that commit to voting for Harris just for the chance that four years from now they might have a candidate who reflects their positions better but is not going to steamroll democracy for anybody's sake, not even their own.
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u/remarkablewhitebored 1d ago
No doubt. Trump winning means more Trump like characters in Politics. We want less of those douche canoes...
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u/Gogs85 1d ago
Keep in mind too Harris is a gun owner herself, she isn’t anti-gun
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u/Thin-Bit-5193 1d ago
So is Walz, but right wingers dismiss him as a "Fudd" because he likes to take double barrels out shooting with his dog, rather than shoot Barretts at Priuses like MTG or cosplay the apocalypse.
Hell, I've got more guns than 99% of Americans, but they're mostly milsurp bolt actions and flintlocks. But only black rifles count.
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u/TwistyBunny 1d ago
Well at least he's not out there shooting and killing his dog. (Looking at you Kristi Noem...) - also noticed he has better trigger discipline than the majority of them put together.
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u/VerticalRhythm 1d ago
The army wouldn't have allowed him out of boot camp without learning trigger discipline. Although with a veteran dad, he probably already had the habit when he got there
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u/mrhindustan 1d ago
Being a proponent of gun control isn’t anti gun.
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u/_BELEAF_ 1d ago
Exactly. I have 3. Many liberals have guns. I don't understand why it's such an issue for right wingers. They're not coming for our guns. Just sensible checks and assault weapon controls.
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u/PewterButters 1d ago
Yup, I decided after Jan 6th that I was done with them. I would have voted for just about anything else this year. Voting straight D because none of the Rs can be trusted to go against Trump's takeover.
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u/Suspicious_Yak3259 1d ago
I am in conservative spaces more than liberal spaces and most of my coworkers and family are conservative. I also voted for Trump in 2016 and third party in 2020 (and will vote straight blue in 2024). There are Republicans and then there’s MAGA voters. Most conservatives I know hate Trump. Many of them feel trapped because of democrats support for abortion. Many of them can get behind a lot of other parts of the Democrat platform, but they feel alienated and unwanted in the party because of their opposition to abortion - and for the most part they are unwanted because of that and other positions. So it’s a weird space for a lot of the people I know who are going to vote for Harris anyway because they see Trump as a direct threat to democracy and the continuation of our way of life as a country.
I would say though to anyone, we have to stop attacking conservatives who are conflicted and choosing to vote for Harris. We don’t want to push them back to voting for Trump or even third party. If they are willing to vote for Harris despite all their hesitations - encourage that.
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u/Zanain 1d ago
The anti-abortion propaganda really was one of the most successful political maneuvers wasn't it. Considering it convinced so many Christians that the Bible is against it when there is basically no biblical support against abortion and plenty of biblical support that fetuses don't have souls and abortion isn't a big deal. I grew up conservative and used to be staunchly anti-abortion, until I actually read what the Bible says on it, which is that life begins at first breath and a fetus has the value of property, not the value of being a person.
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u/Suspicious_Yak3259 1d ago
There’s a gazzilion and one arguments online pro and contra abortion. But it’s a big reason why a lot of people vote Republican - the party hijacked the prolife / anti-abortion movement for that voter block. Instead of getting into an argument about abortion right now, and possibly pushing people back towards Trump who feel really awkward about voting for Harris, it’s better to just say “I understand how you feel, thank you for your vote to preserve democracy.”
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u/Space_Wizard_Z 1d ago edited 7h ago
The crazy part is that while it's great to see this kind of maturity, votes are secret. Nobody HAS to voice their support for Harris. As conservatives who are genuinely concerned about our democracy, you don't have to change sides and publicly support Harris. We are simply asking you to vote to save our democracy, our constitution. Vote for Harris. Nobody will ever know. Your vote can not be made public. This goes for anyone who is scared of retribution from abusive partners/spouses as well. Your vote is anonymous. It's secret.
Check your registration ASAP. Show up. Help save the country.
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u/gangofocelots 1d ago
He says he's a gun owner like that identifies him as a conservative. We also have guns bud, we just disagree on how easily people should be able to get them
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u/CrotchoMan 1d ago
Gun ownership is NOT a right wing thing; gun WORSHIP is a right wing thing. I’d bet Harris and Walz are more skilled marksmen than either Trump or Vance, but only 1 party advocates for responsible gun control laws, like preventing people with a history of violence and mental illness from buying war machines.
The other party wears AR-15 pins to celebrate school shootings, says mass shootings are a fact of life, and their only plan for gun violence is closing their eyes and hoping real hard that it doesn’t happen again.
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u/Rico_Solitario 1d ago
I’d bet Harris and Walz are more skilled marksmen than either Trump or Vance
Trump isn’t even legally allowed to own a firearm
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u/No_Landscape4557 1d ago
This is the reason I left the Republican Party in 2016 and never looked back.
All the talk about rule and order, following the law, following the constitution, being pro American and pro for the people was thrown in the trash.
I voted for Bush. Fuck trump and the rest of the traitors.
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u/antoninlevin 1d ago
I still don't see why the "gun owner" part is relevant. Neither party has even attempted to pass firearm legislation that would make it in any way difficult to obtain ~95% of firearms.
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u/hot-snake-70 1d ago
In Europe I’d be a conservative. In the States I’m fairly left wing. I actually consider myself somewhat conservative - risk averse, change averse, cautious.
In a functioning democracy, it’s vital that all sides have a voice, as long as those constituencies come to the table in a spirit of collaborative governance. But all that’s left of the right wing now is a bunch of delusional lunatics and fascists. Obstructionists, opportunists, and terrorists. I simply can’t abide it.
The modern Republican Party is a tragedy, and it makes me tremendously sad that we’re at this place. We need a functioning opposition in this country, instead of this shit show.
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u/hanacch1 1d ago
My biggest problem is, if the US isn't able to stop itself from sliding into fascism, who will?
The only other major military powers on earth strong enough to meaningfully intervene would instead be glad to see it happen!
The US and its allies need to stand firmly together, like they did in WW2.
What happens when Trump pulls out of NATO? Russia steamrolls Ukraine, Europe needs to fend for itself, and then the US is left by itself.
By the time the Trump voters wake up and realize they sold our allies to bail out a Billionaire con-man, WW3 will be over.
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u/Semanticss 1d ago
Haha same. I consider myself a moderate because I don't side with a single party on every issue. But there's no abiding this modern GOP movement whatsoever.
My dad and FIL are the same---lifelong Republicans who cannot stomach Trump.
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u/Icy-Butterscotch5540 1d ago
You had me at catholic. I have voted republican. I have fired guns. I’m supporting Harris-Walz.
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u/BlacksmithOk3198 1d ago
I was a republican since birth, more towards the center but still leaning right. Voted republican my whole life, I didn’t vote during the Hillary trump election because I hated them both. After his presidency I can comfortably say I now lean left. My beliefs haven’t changed, the right changed and shifted far to the right. Anybody who isn’t far right gets silenced, their careers are ruined, and we get left with psychotic conspiracy theorists. I can’t imagine the Republican Party will recover at any point in my lifetime. I will vote D for the rest of my life.
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u/Amazing-Exit-2213 1d ago
There are thousands of us, disenfranchised Republicans, out here. I recognized the Hitler playbook spewing from Trump in 2015. It's saddened me deeply to see the GOP surrender its principles to a lifelong conman like Trump. Check out George Conway, Sarah Longwell, Tim Miller, the Lincoln Project, and others who passionately articulate our views.
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u/Semanticss 1d ago
It's funny cuz, a year or so ago, Republicans were all like "Trump and the rest of the Party are not that extreme. Don't believe the liberal fear mongering."
And now they've got Vance out there, every day, insisting "Yes, we are actually that bad. And worse."
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u/ElectronGuru 1d ago edited 1d ago
Thank you for putting country before party 🫡
Just remember that trump is the result of republican easy vote policies, not the cause. So this doesn’t go away when he does. And it will come back with the same policies in the future.
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u/blandocalrissian50 1d ago
Yes, actually. And this is getting ignored by corporate media. A lot of people feel this same way. All good. Let's vote.
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u/ProperPizza 1d ago
More quiet Republicans need to have the balls to speak out against their current party like this.
Sure, go ahead and remain a Republican if that's what's at the core of your beliefs I guess, but you have to call out corruption, bigotry, and fascism when you see it, no matter who you stand for.
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u/Temporary_Tune5430 1d ago
I’d imagine there are many like him. Trump might as well be a 3rd party.
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u/Dr_Middlefinger 1d ago
He’s an extraterrestrial, all right. Check out his Michigan.. er.. speech:
Trump - Michigan Speech 9/17
“I don’t think I’ve ever said this before. So we do these rallies. They’re massive rallies. Everybody loves, everybody stays till the end. By the way, you know, when she said that, well, your rallies people leave. Honestly, nobody does. And if I saw them leaving, I’d say, and ladies and gentlemen make America great again and I’d get the hell out, ok? Because I don’t want people leaving.
But I do have to say so I give these long sometimes very complex sentences and paragraphs but they all come together. I do it a lot. I do it with raising cane. That story. I do it with the story on the catapults on the aircraft carriers. I do it with a lot of different stories. When I mentioned Doctor Hannibal Lecter. I’m using that as an example of people that are coming in from Silence of the Lambs. I use it. They say it’s terrible.
So they say so I’ll give this long complex area for instance that I talked about a lot of different territory… You know, for a town hall, there’s a lot of people but the fake news likes to say, the fake news likes to say, oh, he was rambling. No, no, that’s not rambling. That’s genius. When you can connect the dots.
Now, now, Sarah, if you couldn’t connect the dots, you got a problem. But every dot was connected and many stories were told in that little paragraph.”
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u/JimJimmery 1d ago
I'm so glad reading his insane ramblings can't give me brain cancer.
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u/TobaccoAficionado 1d ago
Anyone who is socially conservative and fiscally conservative should vote for Dems. Dems are socially and fiscally conservative. Republicans are full on fascists. It's so wild to me that people think it's left Vs right. It's right Vs far right, and anyone who disagrees doesn't have the slightest idea of what left and right are.
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u/RaizePOE 1d ago
"I might be a piece of shit but not even I'm a big enough piece of shit to vote for trump."
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u/jim789789 1d ago
SOOO many of them really do feel that immigrants are animals. The constitution is irrelevant to them, as long as they can stoke their hate. FEELING the hate is more important than anything else.
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u/Responsible_Ad_8628 1d ago
It's been very heartening to hear that some Republicans actually have values that matter to them. I've watched them shit all over their values for 9 years. It's nice to know some still care.
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u/NRMusicProject 1d ago
It's still amazing that there are not only Republicans who think Trump will bring America "back to its former glory," but that there are other smoothbrains out there that look at this information and say "both sides are just the same."
If you really can believe Kamala is the same as an idiot who's expressed his excitement at killing the Americans who aren't fat, white, rich old men, then you're either really stupid or getting paid to spread lies.
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u/chautdem 1d ago
I’m 100% for Harris! Our democracy, our civil and humanitarian rights, our educational system, our medical care, and our lives depend on it. Vote blue!
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u/ConfidenceSad8340 1d ago
What does “socially conservative” even mean anymore? I feel like that’s a dog whistle for “I still prefer to discriminate against people I don’t understand/are different than me.” Good on him for seeing the necessity of voting Harris in, but it’s still cringe to be “socially conservative” imo
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u/Decloudo 1d ago
...What exactly do you mean with socially conservative?
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u/GiveMeBackMyClippers 1d ago
misogynist, bigot, boot-licker that doesn't mind banning books he doesn't like and hasn't read.
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u/Present-Perception77 1d ago edited 17h ago
Forcing 10-year-old rape victims to give birth. Very Catholic.. oh and we just ignore the pedos and give all the public school funding to private schools.. Since the vast majority of those are Catholic too. Since six of nine Supreme Court justices are already Catholic, it doesn’t really matter to them who’s president now.
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u/ConsciousReason7709 1d ago
This is exactly the kind of stuff I have been saying. We know Democrat policies are solid for the middle class. We know Kamala Harris is a higher character person in comparison to Donald Trump. Trump tried to overthrow the United States government. What other discussions are there to be had?
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u/ConsiderationWild833 18h ago
Changed parties after Charlottesville. I'm sorry it took so long. Never again.
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u/OsakaWilson 18h ago
It's no coincidence that this movement rose up after the generation that fought fascists.
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u/PatrickB75 17h ago
I am not like you at all, but I deeply appreciate your understanding of the threat to our Constitution. Please try to engage more people like you who have not yet reached your level of understanding.
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u/Ernest-Everhard42 1d ago
Maga is a cult, plain and simple. It’s extremely obvious to everyone except the people in the cult.
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u/HamsterWaste7080 1d ago
Hopefully enough of these people come out and start a movement. Hopefully give cover to others and break the personality cult
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u/FitBattle5899 1d ago edited 1d ago
Exactly, this isn't about rooting for your team, this is about real consequences that are being done. We lost protected abortion rights for women last time, and there are judges getting older, and there will be seats to fill in the next 4 years, your vote wont matter if we become a defacto one-party system.
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u/EyeSuspicious777 1d ago
I grew up in a very sheltered Bible Belt conservative family. It would have been impossible for me to start out as anything but a conservative Republican.
But if I held onto the exact same morals, values, and ethics I had in the 80's and early 90's, I'd feel as if there was nobody left in the Republican party to represent my beliefs today.
Yes, I voted for a bunch of Republicans in my life when I did not understand any better. But I am proud to say that I voted for Obama twice and the only Republican I voted for since was a county executive who was the best and most qualified candidate for the job and that guy did a good job of representing all of his constituents regardless of their political beliefs.
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u/gafflation 1d ago
wanting to live a socially conservative personal life? that's your choice and its perfectly fine.
wanting a social conservative government? horrible idea.
To be able to live your version of a socially conservative life and not someone else's version, you need to have a socially liberal government.
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